There is spine tilt (caddy view)
and waist bend (DTL)
You want the spine tilted on the downswing to make room for the arms to hit the 4:30 line. That is the reason.
All this about “getting stuck” is due to not understanding this.
A typical standard address position with the spine more straight up and down over the ball has nothing to do with hitting a golf ball. Moe understood this, and set up with a fully tilted spine. That way he could just feel right where to return or pass through on the downswing. Most people have to move their weight and rock their entire torso to the right to add spine tilt from address. It’s actually a fairly complicated move, and if you have a quicker tempo, this action can really reek havoc in a repeatable golf swing.
Moe starting with the clubhead back a good distance behind the ball is simply an acknowledgment of the 4:30 line. His right leg was straight, aided by a wide stance, shoulders actually quite closed at address,and with his angles pre set, so he basically eliminated that dreaded first move away from the ball that most people have to deal with.
The reason address feels so uncomfortable for most people is exactly this reason. Most people have to pick up and move their entire disposition from a square address, to a 4:30 line disposition. I still bang myself on the head that I didn’t figure this out 20 years ago.
Baseball players basically set up pre coiled for the most part… they don’t set up to the plate with the bat where they think impact is going to be… they don’t have time… This is basically what Moe was doing and I easily integrated this idea into my own swing. I could never go back to a conventional set up. It’s just so much simpler and easily repeatable than making the big lateral shift and move off the ball.
I am not saying you have to do this… because if what you do repeats, then fine… no need to worry… but what if it doesn’t?
As far as Mac trying to keep the head on a wall throughout the swing… maintaining waist bend to finish… I disagree. It limits the range of motion of the left shoulder, and encourages the shaft to move off plane out to the right for most mortals… and it is not historically supported by great strikers. Nelson, Hogan, Snead, Knudson, Moe, they all would get more erect into finish for good reasons.
Lag–are you saying that at address we should set our knees, hips and shoulders to the 430 line and keep that angle back and through? How can I practice this setup in a mirror and how would I know I’m in the proper spine tilt?
Lag, I know it is 2d but his shoulders actually look OPEN (pointing left of target) at address in that sequence you posted.
Maybe so when he was younger it was possible, But there is NO WAY he hit that modern driver his claimed 310y in that video… ZERO chance. If he did, then all of the PGA could be saving their backs since Moe pivots little but would be one of longest on tour.
Fred Couples is a 300+y driver even in his senior days. Yet, while very fluid and effortless looking, he has a lot of rotary/pivot in his swing compared to Moe (and I saw Fred grab his back recently after a drive). Moe’s movements look more concerned with accuracy and distance is a byproduct. He even chokes up a lot on all his clubs in that video.
Lag,
Where was Moe’s clubface pointing at his address position considering it was so far behind the ball. I’ve hit on something recently with this that’s connected to Hogan’s 5 o’clock grip reminders… I’m intrigued
Moe’s clubface was pointed well right of the target. Just drag the clubhead along the ground in a natural arc, and you’ll get the idea. Moe would say 1/3 of his backswing was completed at set up compared to other players. He used to tell me he would drag the club 42 inches along the ground from the ball before it would finally lift off the ground.
I’ve heard quite a few TGM teachers (and other teachers) use the line “there are no flat spots in a circle”, so interesting that the first three and a half feet of Moe’s backswing was as low as it gets
I don’t think the backswing matters too much as a general rule… history proves many different setups and backswings can all achieve the correct result.
This was just Moe’s way of feeling in tune with what the correct down swing (for him) offered …so he did something immediate to help his cause.
Way too many people get caught up in the address position and the takeaway…when all they amount to really is a starting point and a motion to feel the set up for approach and beyond. You can almost start the club from ANYWHERE so long as you know how the approach and impact should be
And this was just a drill he would do also…
which led him to starting the club about a foot behind the ball… sometimes more with the longer clubs. I’ve seen vids of Moe from later years where he didn’t start it quite as far back.
Personally, I don’t like being sold stuff when I’m talking about the golf swing- this one of the things I like about ABS.
If anyone wants to continue with the discussion about Moe, this is probably a better place to do it. No offense intended to the author of the book, but there are some pretty good ‘guessers’ around here.
Great video. Intentions are so interesting when placed against what happened. Hoganquest, do you have any thoughts on the reasons why Moe said he and Hogan were the only ones who got into that position coming down, yet they had polar opposite intentions post impact with their hands and even shoulders?
It seems from his descriptions in that video he really did have the intention of holding that pre impact position from the photos all the way through.
Eagle. Moe was a pure CF swinger whos action was driven by the motion of his torso IMO . Its easy to see if you look.
i think what Moe was getting at is that they both flatten the plane coming down i.e vertical drop Moe said you have to sit in your golf move or you cant do it see video below (audio is out of sync), Lag says a hitter and swinger is basically the same action up until the p3 4:30 position.
of Moe’s backswing was as 
