Sound frustrating, but I will say that of all the people I have seen attempting Moe’s golf swing protocols, Greg’s is hands down the best I have seen. Most specifically how the shaft is still being pressured post impact. Graves is not doing that well from his posted videos. Ultimately it’s about how the shaft and clubhead are going to to be working though and beyond impact. Moe told me over and over “I hit THROUGH the ball”.
Graves may have the set up down and backswing, but it collapses like a fold up beach chair post impact. Either the principal was not properly communicated or it is not being executed properly. But this is critical to Moe’s legendary action.
You can drive it through with pivot rotation or the deltoid lift as Moe used and Trevino, … or a combination of both. Moe’s left shoulder stayed a constant distance from his hands which then stayed ahead of the golf club. His intention was to sustain impact alignments and ultimately ball compression.
To: Paul C
From: Greg Lavern
Your advise is appreciated and well absorbed. I guess world class knowledge that has been privy to only myself is dangerous. Since i will proceed with the new book which will be an entirely new product i really don’t think any of these challengers will have any claim and if they attempt this time around will pay dearly which i will instruct the legal counsel that represents me.
I say this because anyone can write a book and most particularly myself that had a long personal golf relationship and private instruction. I was provided from Moe Norman his untold secrets he did in his swing that he only wanted me to know during the era he taught me and close golf buddy. My knowledge is based on truth and fact not self observations like others but " straight from the horses mouth" as Moe would say.
As for these challengers they are not in my league for knowledge as i can articulate and demonstrate what i have learned.
It is sad their are people out there so ridiculous ready to take advantage of someone. I don’t take advantage of anyone as i don’t need to as i have what everyone wants despite the obstacles i have faced lately. The ones that even think of challenging me are nothing but losers and i think the public will realize this particularly when the new book comes out.
Thank you Paul C. for your good wishes and sound advise.
Greg Lavern
To: Captain Chaos
From: Greg Lavern
I understand, Don’t worry i am moving on straight ahead and will leave the trash behind.
It certainly is your right to have the radar antennas go up when someone makes the strong claim i do. I can only say that what i say is true and never looking to promote the way everyone else markets their teaching of the golf swing based on opinion and devices or drills. There is no more searching with me as what i have to offer is gospel right from the master Moe Norman of how he actually swung the golf club and taught me. There is no BS about it and i will deliver with pure honesty and integrity.
Thank you Captain for your good wishes.
To: Lag Erickson
From: Greg Lavern
Lag I appreciate your honest opinion that you have always maintained since you first viewed me on the moves Moe Norman taught me in my golf swing. The demonstration you posted that Todd Graves put up makes me just shake my head. This fellow must be a legend in his own mind. This is not even close to the way move moves. Look at the strain and desperation compared to the flow of Moe Norman. This is caused because Graves does not utilize his left side properly which is not strong enough down the line that results in right side taking control far to soon. Todd Graves does not move properly to be able to hit through the ball and is forced to release at the ball. Graves does not work up the line even close to the way Moe Norman is displayed where Graves is hitchhiking that his conventional swing will only allow him to produce.
Lag your right on. Moe drilled this into me, " Hit through the golf ball not to it, don’t be afraid to retain the angle as long as you can, stay behind the ball and the club head will always catch up."
Lag
I made a post on www.gothamblog.com under the proboards Moe Norman thread.
This was taken off Graves- Natural Golf stuff now posted when you click The Real Moe Norman.
Moe according to Graves WROTE down and gave to Nick Weslock to type out.
Not true regarding Moe Norman writing anything. Moe could read but not write only his own name in all the time i new him.
Check it out.
Thanks
Greg Lavern
To Lag Erickson:
From: Greg Lavern
From the previous post the actual to view the Moe Thread i was speaking of is www.gothamgolfblog.proboards.com
Thanks
Greg Lavern
From: Greg Lavern
Just wanted to let all the critics know I just finished the chapter on Moe Norman’s most important secret and the rest of the book will be concentrated on over the next six months. It is more important than ever now to get what i know out to have ONE TRUTH. I feel i am the best one to do this on the way Moe Norman swung the golf club, particularly during the era he was recognized as best in the world at striking the golf ball regardless of opinions. I can assure you i am not worried about Natural Golf or Graves Academy since the guy that operates them both does not understand what Moe Norman really did , perform it or can teach it properly. Lag Erickson your host was supportive of my likeness and knowledge on Moe Norman’s golf swing and showed gratitude that i certainly appreciate and will not forget. The rest of you know who you are and feel free to get in touch with me if wish to say hello.
I say thank you for your hospitality and wish all of you at ABS a very Happy New Year in 2012.
Here’s a video that demonstrates the gyroscopic principle. These are “Beyblades”, a new fad among elementary grade children…when they spin fast enough, they balance automatically on their tip, and as the video shows can even be stacked. The other thing of note is the spin axis is automatically VERTICAL, and thus the spin is HORIZONTAL. As the spin rate decreases below a critical level, they begin to wobble, then topple over.
This gives a new meaning to “Beywatch”, but not nearly as fun or giggly.
My 5 year old has a set and we have battles. Not as much fun as the old gyro scopes or the old wooden tops that I used to play with IMHO. The wooden tops took some skill to use.
I found this video recently on youtube. It is a private clinic Moe performed in 2001 in Orlando, FL. In it he mentions that he recently underwent a complete revamping of his swing under the tutelage of Manuel de la Torre (who interestingly lives in Milwaukee, WI, which is one hour south of where I live).
I find it very interesting that in his advanced age, and earning the title as “one of, if not the best ball-striker(s) of all-time”, that he still was constantly seeking to better himself, and his golf swing. That is something we all can learn from.
It’s hard to believe this vid was shot 14 years after I filmed Moe in Alberta. I don’t think he totally revamped his swing… might have made some slight changes to accommodate his aging body at that point… but looks like he was still striking it pretty well.
Lavern looks at my tapes and views those as the old Moe.
I would have loved to have seen Moe strike it in person in the 60’s and 70’s.
Ya Lag, I said that wrong. I meant he mentions that he changed his move. But I agree, it still looks like classic MOE…great! The fact that he is as old as he is at this time, makes it all the more impressive.
CVN72,
I would think that the reason some of his shots were fat is because he had recently undergone eye surgery and could hardly see. Also with Moe’s swing, were he hardly takes a divot, I would think it probably doesn’t matter as much if he hits it a little behind the ball…as indicated by his ball flight.
Lag wrote: A typical standard address position with the spine more straight up and down over the ball has nothing to do with hitting a golf ball. Moe understood this, and set up with a fully tilted spine. That way he could just feel right where to return or pass through on the downswing. Most people have to move their weight and rock their entire torso to the right to add spine tilt from address. It’s actually a fairly complicated move, and if you have a quicker tempo, this action can really reek havoc in a repeatable golf swing.
[b]I am very intrigued by what you said about address positon! Lag, I was wondering how much spine tilt a hitter should have at address? Is there a way to know when you have done it correctly?
I’m sure lag will clarify, but I like this video by Dan Whittaker. A pro local to me whose making a good name for himself in the UK. Seems a good set-up for a hitter??
I don’t see any real logic in setting up square with your hips and shoulders to clubs on the ground that are pointing at the target. The strike into the ball needs to both visually and feel wise… come from well inside.
I call this the 4:30 line. The golf swing needs to be taking place along this line at least on the downswing. Lots of ways to take it back… re route etc… with transition working toward this goal… but Moe had a belief that the first move away from the ball was both unnecessary and even counter productive from a traditional sense.
I really agree with Moe.
Spine tilt is not best achieved by leaning the torso to the right. It is better to bend slightly from the waist, but do this from hips and shoulders that are already closed. We want to achieve this feeling on the downswing by saving some pivot range of motion. This “tilt” allows a passage way for the arms to move down into the slot freely. We never want the arms to feel stuck… and the Stack and Tilt stuff is just nonsense.
However, all this set up and downswing stuff is completely dependent and interrelated to what goes on post impact. If you stall the rotation post impact, you will hit fat or weak right shots… or flippy hook shots.
We always have to remember that any swing change or adjustment is going to have to be worked on from both sides… pre and post impact.
This is why there absolutely is no singular “secret anything” in golf.
