Had a slip on the ice the other day–man talk about acceletation: I was face down on the cement before I realized I was falling. Sprained both wrists pretty good and got a mild concussion so I had to pretend the wooden dowel was very, very heavy 
but it worked.
sorry to hear about that. Winter sucks!
Bobscottjnr:
Glad to hear you experienced Hogan’s posture…no template better than his…
More than just a notion…I would say it’s fact…we can’t accelerate properly if our time is being spent unconsciously correcting flawed set up angles…improper balance and set-up positions will be the first thing corrected within a motion—it’s a survival mechanism—
Hmmmm…maybe if I would have been properly positioned to the curb, I wouldn’t have slipped on the ice. 
I agree whole-heartedly! Gerry Hogan mentions in his video and book that the human body is essentially built like an upside-down beer bottle. The subconscious will derail anything done in the conscience that threatens balance. Bom, I think your comment about the lower leg being more vertical is a good observation.
And Bob, your friend is correct…to become strong you have to learn to move a lot of weight. My grandfather was ahead of his time with weight lifting. I’ll post a picture of him from the early 30’s when he was 18 some time…it puts Jack La Lane to shame. He taught me all the “old school” lifts…essentially the Olympic stuff: clean and jerk, dead lifts, Jefferson lift, etc. You have to have good form though as you can injure yourself severely with these. He also stated that you have to make a determination what you want to accomplish - strength, bodybuilding, or endurance. Finally, you were supposed to incorporate the other two disciplines at times to shock the body into improvement.
Cheers,
Captain Chaos
Bom, I know what you should do that you’d probably enjoy immensely - take some very detailed video of yourself now and sign up. Continue to take the videos and make notes of the changes in your patterns as you progress through the modules.
I have little doubt that your observations would be very beneficial to the others in the group.
Just an idea.
Cheers,
Captain Chaos
I second that motion!
RR,
I think with Duval it’s a misconception to say he played his best golf when he was pudgier. He definitely played some great golf when he was, that 59 on the last round of the Hope was pretty decent. He had a solid gut then, as well as his shirt hanging out the back(which I think is just great btw- golf is so clean cut at this point) When he won The Open in 01 he was well into his workout phase and his face was all cheek bones. I remember thinking that he looked too thin for his physique but I think that’s just from being used to looking at him as he was. You could argue that he went too far with all that stuff, and did end up injuring himself working out if I’m not mistaken. He’s a dead honest guy, probably the most straight talking out there, and I’m all ears when he has something to say. So when he says that his injuries derailed him and spiraled into a lack of confidence I take him on his word. Bottom line is that he won a major, and was no.1 in the world at basically his thinnest, and shot 59 to win the Hope(etc., etc.) when he was more ‘rotund’, so it’s tough to look at his weight as the determining factor with him. I really wanted to work ‘rotund’ into this post!
I personally don’t think body weight makes you hit it farther. If there was a big sway going on in the swing then I could see some benefit to a bigger body mass giving more momentum, but that’s not the way it is. The swing is so dynamic and is so much about timing and firing that I just don’t see how a heavier body would benefit that. It might even hinder it really. Heavy arms are probably a benefit(particularly below the elbows)- and muscle being heavier than fat, strong forearms might help twice.
I think if your body doesn’t learn to adapt during a weight loss, if the weight loss happens too quickly and you’re not hitting a lot of balls at the time, then I think it could cause problems with timing and knowing your swing. I think Daly is having trouble with that. If your muscles learn to do something a certain way while carrying a certain amount of weight, and then you quickly take that weight away, then they’ll have to learn the new amount of effort required to do it. It think this is pretty subtle, but so is the difference between the levels of golf.
If you hold a tray with two bricks on it at arms length for while, you’ll figure out a way to hold it at the angle you want. If, without you realizing it, someone took one of the bricks off, then the tray would raise up without you trying to do that.- and vice-versa. If you were prepared for it you might be able to adjust better as the brick is lifted, but a new amount of effort is now required to do the same thing. That’s a very simple example of what I’m talking about- not that it was needed…
What are your thoughts on having a heavy body? I noticed you talking about it regarding bowling I think it was…
Cheers…
Cheers, Captain…
Maybe at some point, but I’m on a bit of a journey to hammer out my own thoughts on some stuff, and have a terrible fear of influence anyway- I wouldn’t wish me on Lag! It might be a Cheney approved experience for him…
B
Bom222:
Nice points on Duvall…I guess I was thinking that it’s like Congress…when they appropriate money it takes a while for the money to reach its destination…sometimes 2 years. Maybe winning the Open was a shining moment on the downward slide from this loftier girth But I don’t know…just something a few of us were tossing around last year. Do you remember what his injury was?
I’m going to have to think a little further on this…kinda what I was gettin at is why is there a limit on weight for steel shafts. I mean in a TTsteel range is what…90-120grms or something like that. Why do they stop there…why not have incremental weights up to say 170grms.
I know there are alot of variables to consider…but I’m intriqued by the science of it which I don’t know…
I mean…lets take a 7iron…given the length of the shaft, the weight of the shaft, headweight, grip weight, dynamic effective mass feels, etc…has science concluded that given a 120grm shaft that club needs a head weighing about 270grams. Who say it does? That’s what gets me confused…Why can’t or don’t the OEM’s make a 7 iron with a 150grm shaft maybe a 300grm head…maybe big people might have an easier time with it…but I’m not sure…I’m like you sometimes… searching for different answers… 
Great stuff, Bob… you’re speaking my language!
Yeah I know what you mean, RR, things like that can take a while to have their effect. Maybe that did play a part with him, it’s never just one thing I suppose. I’m a big fan of seasons though, so who knows why really…
I hear you on the shafts alright. It’s strange why they stopped at that weight. I’m not a club guy, but I’m sure there are all sorts of ratios that guide these decisions, and if the ratios are seen as set in stone, then maybe they don’t query that. I have on old mp29 2i with an X100 shaft in there that I cut the top off the grip and filled with sand. I packed it in there pretty good so it wasn’t moving around. I use it for practice swinging and working through drills etc.- I wanted a club that was a little heavier but not crazy heavy. I never thought of hitting it but had it with me on the range one day and decided to give it a go. It was really amazing how good the strike was- it was nipped sharp into the ball and shallow, with a real heavy hit feeling and sense of momentum through impact. They flew really low and flat, but it was fun. I didn’t tape up the head so it was all shaft weight. I can only imagine what the swing weight was. Maybe the lack of expectations I had helped, but it was eye-opening to say the least. Ever since then I’ve been drawn to the idea that the shaft should be heavier, maybe even a lot heavier.
I think the distribution of weight in the club is screwy when compared with how we want to use it. It’s kind of like trying use whip the wrong way around- you could kind of do it but you’re timing would have to be spot on and you’d really have to wait for the handle to stretch out behind you and then accelerate really slowly. Not that the handle would even stay in the air, but conceptually speaking you’d have to do that. Not very practical though, and sounds kind of familiar! You obviously have to wait for the end even when using it the right way round, but it’s much more practical that way. Not that that’s exactly the same as golf, but you get the picture.
Maybe if the club was closer to the weight of our arms it wouldn’t be so confusing to our senses. I think mass through impact might not just be about clubhead mass, but also about the mass of the whole thing right up to your shoulders. It’s very interesting to ask those types questions I reckon, the repercussions can be massive in terms of swing theory. Lag seems to address that kind of stuff with the body and the heavier clubs. I do think that the more you get to using your body, the heavier the club has to be. That could be a chicken and egg thing though…
Bom: Good points…like the sand idea…pretty cool.
Maybe one day when I get younger I’ll fully understand the science of it all
Now don’t laugh…but everytime I watch Charles Barkley I keep thinking that the dude is so strong that he is maybe way off the spec. charts for gear that would be appropriate for him…watching him it looks like he doesn’t want to swing at all…I would guess he really wants to hit the snot out of it using everything he has…
Would like to see someone build an off the chart club for him to see what happens…the swing?..we’ll dump that move and let his natural instincts take over into a more hitting aspect with lots of downloading…I would love to get into his head…don’t know what Haney did but for crying out loud the guy is an athlete…you got to get into his head first what he needs to do in relationship to things he may or may not know he does naturally…RR
Does anyone want to play spot the similarity? There’s something they both do that’s really subtle but has big implications… it’s really fascinating(to me anyway)…
Hint: it’s during transition
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1HidWmcURI[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhUkNy9eHfI[/youtube]
?They step on the right heel and then turn it clockwise before it is dragged target ward/anticlockwise by the left side???
Perry does it a bunch-- it’s a great idea to help keep grounded and find the inside path-- but hard to think of whilst swinging …It’s a natural part of their swing that comes with beating balls and training the body with a purpose…For those with ideas about going straight out on the course and bringing that into your swing …forget it…you can’t just rip out and start doing that overnight on the course unless you train your body to do it unconsciously by practice unless you want to mess up a bunch of other swing thoughts or feelings along the way
It’s certainly an interesting move with motivation and purpose behind it and is a part of many more good swings than people would care to imagine
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQTNGShCX3I[/youtube]
It is better than getting up on your tippy-toes, but if the pivot is continuous wouldn’t the foot start to roll inward along with knee like Lag, Hogan, Nelson, Knudson…? 
Are we on the same page about the left heel? I think the right was mentioned but I am looking at McIlroy’s left heel and Perrys left heel
That’s what I am looking at…it replants itself and turns toward the target blocking the hips… which then in turn helps with inside path and restricting the hips from opening so much to allow the pivot to work harder through impact.
Right on the money Twomasters. I’ve been really working on footwork and leg work for the last month or so-so much going on down there as you know. I’ve been working the weight transfer around the different parts of my feet to see what comes of it. What’s interesting about that forward replant of the left heel is that for me it comes as quite a natural reaction to rolling in the whole of the left foot kind of like Nicklaus always talks about. For me what seems to be clicking in a lot of solid things is trying to feel like the whole outside of the left foot is unloaded during the backswing as opposed to just my heel. It never really happens like that but it’s a good sense to have. It focuses the energy within the body as opposed to getting any of it firing towards the ball. It seems to a great natural way of having a solid lateral aspect to the swing, and like I was saying, the lateral reaction produced by that effort seems to be that forward replanting of the heel. It’s a great form of lateral shift because it’s not a ‘weight’ shift as such, but a forward relocation of the base. In fact it was seeing it come out of my experimenting that made me go looking for it which was kind of exciting when I found it…
It’s a great anti spin out move as you say as it basically keeps you turning without realizing it. An all round great thing to do but as you say also, it’s not to be played around with, it needs to be a happening within a good motion. Very interesting to see Perry do it because to the eye he really seems to stay on that right side all the way, but that shift of the forward base is his sort of invisible forward move.
I like that other video of Nicklaus doing it because you get a great sense of him planting the whole foot towards you, but the second swing in this clip gives a clearer view of it…
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH36644ARJE[/youtube]
Pretty close, Macs… cool to see you looking down low though… good stuff…
Nice eye Bom!!