That’s because you do almost always get a good lie in pine straw. Not just at Augusta, but anywhere. Not one player would tell you that they wouldn’t rather be in pine straw than rough.
I’ve been to Augusta twice. Once in '96 and another time in 2006.
The course is setup differently. They changed a lot to ‘Tiger-proof’ the course. But, what they mainly did was lengthen the course which really didn’t Tiger proof it. They were just no longer hitting 9-irons into 13 and 15.
But by lengthening it, it just favored the bombers. They could have countered that with making the rough reasonably long enough to penalize players for hitting such wayward shots. Instead, they have come up with the excuse of ‘that’s how Jones and MacKenzie would have wanted it’ and I don’t think that’s true at all. I’m not asking for US Open rough, but they need to find ways to change with the times because IMO, we saw way too many awful shots from players on the leaderboard. They also hit some majestic shots as well. I’m not asking for Hogan-esque ballstriking, just a way to keep more of a variety of styles of golf in contention and to punish a player when they hit an awful shot.
3JACK
I completely agree with you about penalizing the wayward shots. I really like Bubba, he seems like a great guy. However, it did really annoy me when they kept going on and on about how he’s hitting these shots from the trees that nobody else can hit. It’s not that nobody can hit them, it’s that nobody gives themselves that many opportunities to hit shots from that deep in the woods. That being said, he did hit some awesome recovery shots.
My one contention was that the rough is not shorter and the trees are not thinner than they used to be. These recovery shots have always been available on that course, at least as far back as I have seen the tournament. This isn’t a modern phenomena.
Google earth has a timeline slider on it so you can look at satellite pics all the way back to 1993. You can clearly see how far back the tees have gone, and right now there is no more going back, there is no more room apart from maybe 5,7 and 8 but you cant really make those holes longer, the length of the 7th now is a joke for the type of green it is. 11 is pretty much unrecognizable now, they’ve added a ton of trees up the right. combine that with the “first cut” they introduced in 98 make the course so different. The new practice facility looks pretty awesome though!
Get rid of the first cut, take it all back to fairway height but don’t groom the pine needles. That would make shots that are just off line run into the pines and be faced with all kinds of tough shots out of fluffy pine needles.
I’ve played pine tree lined course and you don’t get a good lie in pine straw that hasn’t been groomed and cleaned down to less than 1 inch of straw. Most of the pine straw that falls from the trees stays there and gets to be upwards 3-4 inches deep with lots of undulations and nooks and crannies. I’ve found my ball sitting down like an egg in a bird nest. Let’s not even mention the pine cones.
You must play some pretty pristine golf courses… 
The other ‘big’ thing to look at besides the driving distance is the irons.
In more ‘noble times’ Bubba would not have had a second shot on 17 or even on the playoff hole on 10 because 155 yards was a 7 or 8 iron and he would not have been able to get over the limbs or trees in front of him. Yet he hits a wedge over the trouble and still gets to the green on both occasions.
It is a smashers paradise because even though some holes are still leaving similar yardages now because of the lengthening the shots into the green are being hit with 2-3 clubs less and the shorter the club the less sidespin and more elevation a player gets and his task is made easier and the quality does not have to be as precise
Bradley is right… and I have said this many times before… it is more a trajectory issue than anything.
If you have to land the ball into the first 1/3 of the green to get the ball into position… there is a big difference between having to do that and having access to the entire depth of the green because you are dropping the ball out of the sky straight down with a more lofted club.
In the past there was a lot of skipping the ball back to the pin on 10 and 11, and 13 and 15. 12 was always a hole you had to land it near the front of the green. I saw guys this week backing the ball up on the green on 12 which makes it much easier.
Guys in the past used to hit 7 iron… even 6 iron into 12. Now a lot of wedges with the new ball.
The whole thing to me is that the approach shots don’t need to be as precise now because of trajectory issues. I’m really shocked I don’t hear any of the commentators discussing this.
The relationship between the shape and design of the greens, and the trajectory of shots coming into them is what really separated Augusta from other courses. Now that is all gone for the most part. It just plays like other courses. It appears the same to the casual observer… I can see that… but it clearly is not.
In my mind, we have not seen a proper Masters for 15 years.
They need to simply restrict the gear and set it up like it used to be. Trying to change the course to accommodate the modern gear is a lot more silly… if you are looking at it from a purely golf standpoint.
And it is all these reasons why we don’t see all the hall of famers on the board on Sunday anymore.
All you have to do is go back and look at how Nicklaus, Faldo, Langer, Watson even Seve… and how they played the course.
I don’t think the goal should be excitement. Let that happen from great golf being played. It seems the media and the fans just love all the recovery shots… and that might have been Seve’s appeal also… but Seve never hit three drives into the pines on the back nine when he was winning. It’s the pressure that should be creating the poor swings… not just the standard “hit 50% of the fairways” concept… which is what it looks like now.
I’m not really sure why I even watch it anymore. I guess it has just become a passive tradition since I was a kid… and I am probably fooling myself into thinking that at some point I am going to see some great golf again there that doesn’t look like any other tour event. It just doesn’t come across that the players are walking a tightrope anymore on Sunday. Phil makes triple and blames it on a bad bounce off the grandstands. Jean V didn’t even make that comment.
Okay Hole 15 - Par 5 530yds. Take away 185 yards left to pin = 345 yard drive. Don’t remember Jack or Arnie hitting them that far. Take off 70 yards and you get 275 yard drive. Sounds more like a great persimmon wood drive of that time. I didn’t mean 50-70 yards further from last year! Geez, technology didn’t evolve that fast…yet. And maybe 50-70 yards is a bit of an exaggeration but not by much. They have been trying to lengthen the course to accommodate the technology but it’s a losing cause.
As for wind , it can’t be summoned by the tournament on command (unless they install wind turbines and put electricity into them versus generating. Maybe that’s the next Tiger/Bubba proofing measure?). So golly, they had to hit long irons and even metals into a par 5 with their second shots with all that wind? Truly a struggle for them to overcome…
I’ve been watch the Masters for 20 years. Don’t know what course you have been looking at when you say “… making it seem like they were playing a course that was set up drastically different than years past and I just don’t see it.” It has changed significantly over the last 15 years.
Interesting fun fact. Hole 13 - Par 5. Phil Mickelson is something like -61 for that single hole for all the rounds he’s played at the Masters there (20 Masters, 2 missed cuts so about 76 rounds).
Ok…We were talking about the set up of the trees. You made the comment that the trees are set up strategically so that they are placed approximately where drives will be landing. Makes sense. You then made the comment that the trees are no longer in the appropriate positions because balls are 50-70 yards further. This would imply that you mean balls are now 50-70 yards closer to the green, considering we are talking about the layout of the hole. Get it?
I completely agree. I think my comment is being taken out of context. I was just referring to the availability of recovery shots from the trees. A few guys had made comments that made it seem like this was never an option before. My only point was that in most Masters I have seen I don’t remember seeing a ton of guys pitching out from trees. It seems like, for the most part, August has always been a course that gives players options to the green from most spots in the trees.
Again, I am saying that they are getting past the worst of the trees not exactly 50-70 past but they are definitely in newer “tree territory”. I told you it was a bit of an exaggeration on how far past. I’ve seen plenty of players in the trees and pine straw have to simply get it back into play. Just lay up and get it back onto the fairway. It seems nowadays they just go over them with alot more frequency. They can’t move the trees to Tiger/Bubba proof it, only move the tees back and they seem to have run outta space for that. They could plant more trees but it might take 30-50 years for them to be mature enough to matter. By that time the 400yd drive would be commonplace if technology continues down this road.
If only there was a way to change the ball with about 2cents worth of material changes that would keep this from happening. Or make a rule limiting the driver heads to about 260cc instead of 460cc. You could still have titanium/graphite drivers but they wouldn’t go as far. Hmmm, sounds like the cheaper/easier option.
And you know what? Since everyone would play the same limited ball and driver restrictions it would be equitable to the players since they all would play the same thing. Bubba could still hit it long. Maybe not as long since he might have to control his swing better and not fall outta his shoes every time he swings.
Golf definitely needs a reset or is it a mulligan?
The answer is so obvious… We gonna mine the moon, every last bit of it; send a bunch of rocket powered dump trucks up there til there’s nothing left. We’ll increase the mass of the Earth by like 30% so that’ll increase the gravitational pull and keep the ProVs out of the air plus the added surface area will give Augusta National more room to push the tees back further.
Now that I think about it we get bonus babies too. The planet will fly up to a higher orbit so we won’t have to worry about that pesky global warming stuff anymore and the Maldives won’t have those pesky tides washing everything out to sea. Win win win!!
Do I have to think of everything around here?? Done and done… next…
I still like my wind turbines idea. Just think, when they aren’t having the Masters and using them to create wind, the turbines will generate electricity by using the wind the rest of the year.
Then they can really call the Masters a “green” tournament. 
This is clearly going nowhere so I’ll just make my point once more and call it quits. Explain to me where the guys this weekend were in this new territory on a consistent basis. I keep using the example of hole 15 because it’s a straight away tee ball and it’s a hole we see a lot of on tv. Bubba, the longest hitter in the field, had 185 in on Sunday. Most of the guys were hitting something between mid irons-fairway metals if they went for the green. How is this different than in past years? How does this put them in new “tree territory?”
Also, for comparison’s sake, I believe they said Bubba hit 8 iron into that green Sunday. Jack said he hit 8 iron into 15 in 1964.
Here’s a link to Arnold Palmers plan for playing the 1963 Masters for every hole straight from the 4 time Masters champions mouth(pen). Extremely interesting read. Not exactly a short hitter so a decent comparison and only a year earlier than your quote of Jack in 1964.
http://persimmongolftoday.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Palmer-Plan1.pdf
Highlight of hole 15 since you seem to be fixated on that. It was 520 yards then. So they stretched it a whopping 10 yards in the 48 years since then to 530 for the modern ball/clubs.
His plan for hole 15.
“A big drive will enable you to hit anything from a three wood to a three iron, depending on weather and wind conditions…The second shot, most often with a three wood, is then hit to the right side of the green, the side with the most room.”
I guess Arnie could only hit his 3 wood as long as Bubba and Jack could hit their 8 iron. 
Also, we need a truer definition of fairway metals since most are now hybrids that replace the longer irons for most players. Not what most people would consider a fairway wood (3 wood - 5 wood).
And little bit more of math. Since they have lengthened the course to accommodate the changes in technology from 49 years ago things should even back out right? (Strangely they shortened 3 holes).
Augusta National
Year 1963 2012 Net Difference
Hole Par
1 4 400 445 45
2 5 555 575 20
3 4 355 350 -5
4 3 220 240 20
5 4 450 455 5
6 3 190 180 -10
7 4 365 450 85
8 5 530 570 40
9 4 420 460 40
Front9 3485 3725 (240 yards longer)
10 4 470 495 25
11 4 445 505 60
12 3 155 155 0
13 5 475 510 35
14 4 420 440 20
15 5 520 530 10
16 3 190 170 -20
17 4 400 440 40
18 4 420 465 45
Back9 3495 3710 (215 yards longer)
Full 18 6980 7435 (455 yards longer in total)
6.52% Longer course over 49 years.
How much further are the balls/clubs from the steel shafted persimmons and blades hitting a balata wound ball to the modern titanium graphite shafted, perimeter weighted cavity backs hitting plastic balls of today? I think a bit more than 6.52% longer. I hit a good persimmon 250-260 with a modern ball. My titanium/graphite driver 290-300.
More math (300-260 = 40 yards further. 40/260) = 15.38% longer just on my drives with a modern ball. Balata wouldn’t go as far which is what they played until the late 90s. I aint no pro either just a weekend 9 handicapper.
You keep talking about how things aren’t much different from the past but what is the past in your mind? 5-10 years ago? Most of us are thinking of the past of pre 2000 eras before all the major technology changes the last 10-15 years that have completely changed the face of golf.
I guess from that perspective, not much has changed in golf since the early 2000s so I guess your point is correct. We are just looking at different windows of the “past”.
That Arnie article was really cool. From what I could gather it sounds like he would be hitting his 3-wood about 230-240 and his 3 iron maybe 205-210. Does that sound reasonable? We can average out his range then to about 225.
So Bubba had 185 in. If we go by tour stats the last few years on tour he’s been about 30 yards longer than the tour average. So Bubba at 185 + 30 = 215 for the tour average hitter. Is it playing shorter? Yes. Does that put them in your new “tree territory?” Nope. And that’s all this argument has been about so maybe we just drop it.
Unfortunately I didn’t get to see a lot of the final round until the end. However, I did see Kuchar hit some kind of fairway metal to the green.
youtube.com/watch?v=tHkQ8jfSt5g
Around the 1:40 mark we see a 46 year old Jack Nicklaus with 200 yards into the 15th, 15 more than Bubba. Is 1986 far enough back in time?