Masters 2012

Public Forum—Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking
121

this is neither here nor there but i recall couples slinging a big hook 7 iron into 15 the year he won. i think sometimes with the
right wind they could reach those mounds on the right and get a nice big kick forward resulting in some pretty short second shots.

i was always under the impression the masters comittee wanted 13 and 15 to have possibilities for eagles as well as doubles or triples
and that usually seems to be the case…

i still enjoy watching masters as well as the other majors no matter what equipment. i grew up playing and watching sports… not a big
fan of the nba anymore, college basketball really is lasts 2 weeks, my baseball team pretty much blows and we don’t have hockey in houston. i love college and nfl football but that’s only 4-5 months.

i have young kids and neighbors in and out of my house all weekend so i always have sports on the tv and a cold beer waiting. compared to all the other crap on tv i think the majors is a great alternative no matter what equipment is being played…

122

The ball goes easily 15% farther. So just off that the course now plays about 7% shorter. That is not taking into consideration trajectory. The hotter ball allows a player to hit a more lofted club from the same distance.
This is a very overlooked factor.

While Augusta was always one of the more wide open courses on tour… it now is one of the few where you actually see players hitting out of the trees. They have been taking a lot of trees out on courses these days.
Pebble is a perfect example. #16 is hardly recognizable anymore.

From what I have heard, the combination of the modern ball and frying pans allow for an extra kick due to the COR of the clubface springboarding the ball even farther at speeds over 115 mph. This increases at even higher speeds so it just further buries the shorter hitters.

It’s good to hit it long, but long should also be straight.

123

[quote="InsideTheLeather"Around the 1:40 mark we see a 46 year old Jack Nicklaus with 200 yards into the 15th, 15 more than Bubba. Is 1986 far enough back in time?[/quote]
They didn’t show the drive. It might have been a big wind with a great bounce with a great drive. Jack did get those monster shots once in a while. 200 yards was probably his 3/4 iron for his second shot. You give your back of the napkin “average” as 215 in for pros today. Well, sorry to tell you this but that is a 5-6 iron for the longer modern players. Cherry picking is easy to do. I can take all of the best shots I ever hit on my local muni and be -12 for a round. Does that count?

I’m not saying no one should ever get on in two and Bobby Jones did want them to have the ability to make eagles and bogeys or worse.
RISK versus reward. But when you’re hitting 8 iron into a par 5 for your second shot, how much risk do you think they are taking? Maybe he could lay up with putter to take the risk out and get on in 3?

So Bubba is 30 yards longer than tour average. For this year he is at 313.1, tour average is 286 so 313-286 = 27 yards longer. What was the tour average distance back in 1963 or even 1986 (both persimmon and balata era)? Probably closer to 250-260 but I’ll give you the actual average in 1987.

Here is an excerpt from Sports Illustrated in March 23 1987 article about Davis Love III and the top 10 pros driving distance averages.
“But as a PGA Tour rookie last year, Love had the statistics to back his up. He led the Tour in average driving distance at a record 285.7 yards, nearly two yards farther than second-place Greg Twiggs and about 25 more than the Tour average” That made the tour average 285.7-25 = 260.7 yards. Now Davis Loves’ record average driving distance in 1987 is shorter than the tour average of today.

So the tour average in 1987 was 260 yards with Davis and a few other “record long hitters” to push it up to that. Bubba is 53.1 average yards farther and tour average is 26 yards farther just off the tee but nothing has changed?!?!? :open_mouth:

Not sure why you seem to be so fixated on new “tree territory”. It’s not the main point I have been making. Just one of them.

You seem to think I hate the Masters and modern golfers. Quite the opposite, I love the game, the tournament and the players but golf has been going down hill rapidly and continuing on that trajectory. You watch golf but don’t see what’s happening. I see massive changes going on at so many levels. You just see “same old, same old”. Some of us won’t sit by idly and say nothing. It will eventually be the ruin of the game. Something that it may never recover from.

And you’re right, this “argument” is going nowhere. I’m done with it. How dare I use facts, history and math to try to show you something and maybe open your eyes. Go back to sleep and dream about the future Masters.

Here’s some music and video to fall asleep to and dream of what’s to come…

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCT3j8OqlhI[/youtube]

124

Property was thus appalled,
That the self was not the same;
Single nature’s double name
Neither two nor one was called.
Reason, in itself confounded,
Saw division grow together,

Brave New World, chapter 12
borrowed from The Phoenix and the Turtle by William Shakespeare

125

[quote=“Ironsmith”]

I didn’t bother reading the rest because again you have completely missed the point. We aren’t talking about the differences in equipment. We aren’t talking about the changes in the ball. I completely understand those differences. I also completely understand Lag’s point about the importance of shots coming in at different trajectories. These are all very valid points. However, this is not what we were talking about.

Again, you told us that players this weekend were 50-70 yards closer to the green and that this put them past where trees were strategically placed and thus made recovery shots from the trees that much easier. All I wanted to do was explain to you why that is simply not true, which I feel that I have done.

126

Forget it. Even though I said that 50-70 yards closer was a bit of an exaggeration. You completely ignore what the thought was about (being in a cluster of trees designed to catch/block errant shots versus being just in some trees that line the course). Ask Eisenhower about his damn tree and how he tried to get the committee to take it out. Funny, no one ever talks about it anymore. Maybe it doesn’t come into play?

You win. Happy now? I’m moving on. Last post on that subject.

127

David Feherty…Venturi/Bubba…young/old…either/or…both/and

There have been a couple of interesting hour long programs on the Golf Channel this week, one with Bubba Watson and one with Ken Venturi who was the golf analyst for CBS for 35 years after a fine but short career as a player. We all have fond memories of Venturi’s voice for many years at the Masters. Among other things that make him special was his close relationship with Byron Nelson and Ben Hogan.

Bubba Watson of course represents the new young lion on the scene, and his star apparently is rising. Venturi comments that he(Venturi) led the field in fairways hit the year he won the US Open, and was 16th in distance at 249 yards…“today, these guys are hitting 5i that far.”

Feherty does a great job with these two. The interviews made me respect and like Venturi even more, and kindled warm feelings for Bubba.

128

I know that everyone from my generation was taught that golf is a game of tradition.

But golf is in no way a game of tradition anymore. It just simply is not… and I would see no arguments for claiming that it still is. None.

The general collective of definitions of the word “tradition”… suggest a belief or thought moving from one generation to another.

Somewhere along the way, this “passing” of the thought did not get passed.

129

I’ll always call my metal 3-wood a wood even though it is metal. All of my other fairway woods are persimmon so the name and tradition are in synch. Calling them fairway metals just doesn’t flow well on the ears. Kinda of like when you hit a titanium you hear and feel “Tiiink! or Biiink!”. With a well struck persimmon you hear and feel “WHACK!!!”. If they could get that sound/feel into a Titanium then they might be on to something.

I call my driver a driver, never a 1-wood or driving wood even though I have persimmon drivers. I do have a nickname for my titanium driver. I call it my “cheater stick”. Nothing like gaining 30-40 yards from my driver by simply changing from my persimmon to titanium. It must be because I’m instantly that much more of a better player. :smiley:

130

They have already reinvented smaller headed training irons with smaller sweetspots, graphite shafts with counter weights to bring the weight back up something like a steel shaft and metal woods that look like wood. The next innovation is going to be titaniums filled wood.

131

They’re already making titaniums that are supposed to look more like a persimmon, too.

132

:unamused:
th_pig-lipstick.jpg

133

Looks like we are basically a wrap for the 2012 Masters. I think it’s horrific what has happened to the game, and Augusta in general and the play is a bore with everyone hitting short irons into holes.

I have a nice stock pile of classic Masters events and will post one each year until I run out… which won’t be for quite a while. I found watching the 1985 Masters much more interesting and even exciting as well as inspiring and educational… compared to what I saw this year. While I knew the outcome, I couldn’t remember the individual shots played… so it was exciting in that way.

Bom’s recent post with Faldo playing Woosie at Wentworth again reminded me why these two players were Master champions and how far the game has backslid in the modern era.

[youtube]- YouTube

I don’t see any arguments for what has happened other than human stupidity.

134

grantland.com/story/_/id/778 … olf-empire

135
136

The comparison is brilliant. I’d think Mad Men is required viewing in these parts. Augusta doesn’t make any sense on any level whatsoever anymore no matter what your perspective is.

137

Awesome, do you read The Sports Guy? He moved over to Grantland a while back. Maybe you have to be a RedSox fan to love him. Top notch stuff…

138

O yeah. I got about 400 yrs of Massachusetts blood in my veins anyway, been reading BS since The Magazine first came out. His take on the Warriors as the worst franchise in sports is so good

grantland.com/story/_/id/771 … easy-steps

It’s hard to find guys who actually talk about the games and the sports rather than the noise these days.

139

The author in grantland.com writes an interesting article and makes some good points. For me, he stretches a little too much for the dramatic effect.

Percy Boomer wrote of the importance of “remembered feelings”, or recalling great shots, as a way of playing better golf. How many of you successfully employ this device when facing a critical shot? “Remembered feelings” may also play an important role in many areas of life…good and bad. A friend insists our search to recall the past, and replay those feelings explains much of our behavior.

Surely not everything about the Masters’ past, and the era from which it came, is wonderful and worth remembering and perpetuating. But, it’s not all bad either. The excessive sentimentality does wear thin; they are a little long on respecting/revering the past, versus simply enjoying and serving the present. But they do seem to be trying to responsibly prepare for the future… and maybe they will find a way HOW. It does appear to be their intention.

We have seen good suggestions on this forum as options, and those may possibly reach the right people some way some how. Other fine touranments, with longer histories, like the British Open, face the same challenges.

So maybe the Masters journey is not ready to conclude…the “story” can and may end well so to speak. I’m not smart or honest enough to figure out if I like the Masters for the wrong reasons, but I’m not giving up on it yet.

140

Good stuff, I’ll give it a read. Yeah he’s tough to beat, he’s got it all imo.