interesting story about Fleming Eagle.
Homer Kelley would say that the idea went into his ‘incubator’.
Remembered this story from a book I read long ago about creativity and discovery,
Friedrich August Kekulé von Stradonitz is a remarkable figure in the history of chemistry, specifically organic chemistry.
Twice Kekulé had dreams that led to major discoveries!
Kekulé discovered the tetravalent nature of carbon, the formation of chemical/ organic “Structure Theory”, but he did not make this breakthrough by experimentation alone. He had a dream! As he described in a speech given at the Deutsche Chemische Gesellschaft (German Chemical Society):
I fell into a reverie, and lo, the atoms were gamboling before my eyes! Whenever, hitherto, these diminutive beings had appeared to me, they had always been in motion; but up to that time, I had never been able to discern the nature of their motion. Now, however, I saw how, frequently, two smaller atoms united to form a pair; how a larger one embraced the two smaller ones; how still larger ones kept hold of three or even four of the smaller; whilst the whole kept whirling in a giddy dance. I saw how the larger ones formed a chain, dragging the smaller ones after them, but only at the ends of the chain. . . The cry of the conductor: “Clapham Road,” awakened me from my dreaming; but I spent part of the night in putting on paper at least sketches of these dream forms. This was the origin of the Structural Theory."
Later, he had a dream that helped him discover that the Benzene molecule, unlike other known organic compounds, had a circular structure rather than a linear one… solving a problem that had been confounding chemists:
“…I was sitting writing on my textbook, but the work did not progress; my thoughts were elsewhere. I turned my chair to the fire and dozed. Again the atoms were gamboling before my eyes. This time the smaller groups kept modestly in the background. My mental eye, rendered more acute by the repeated visions of the kind, could now distinguish larger structures of manifold conformation; long rows sometimes more closely fitted together all twining and twisting in snake-like motion. But look! What was that? One of the snakes had seized hold of its own tail, and the form whirled mockingly before my eyes. As if by a flash of lightning I awoke; and this time also I spent the rest of the night in working out the consequences of the hypothesis.”
The snake seizing it’s own tail gave Kekulé the circular structure idea he needed to solve the Benzene problem!
Said an excited Kekulé to his colleagues, “Let us learn to dream!”
Same organ we have for learning the golf swing. How many of us dream of hitting the bag in our sleep?
Flop
I realize we may have drifted a little off TGM topics, and I apologize for that. I did read something this week, an editorial on the dangers “groupthink” in the USA Today. While it uses the “global warming industry” in this example( and exposes the fraud of it), I thought it also applies to everything , including TGM . How often have we heard of people being censored or banned from TGM websites for presenting dissenting views.
At this site, I am unlearning some old things, and learning many new things …like a “bent left arm at impact” or “feet sliding” may not be defects at all, but rather options that indicate good intentions & proper pressures. Some folks here have extremely educated eyes, and tons of experience to overcome the blind-spots that groupthink can cause. I like that.
Here’s a link to the groupthink editorial:
blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/12/ … stry-.html
eagle
I had to learn that lesson when I hit the tour… there were a lot of funny looking swings hitting the ball every bit as good as I was with my supposedly textbook move. The ball doesn’t lie, and if you can go out and hit 16 greens or better on a top course, especially back in the days of less forgiving gear, you simply were doing things correctly.
There is a lot of dogmatic thinking in this game… but once I turned the corner as started trying to understand the anomalies of the game instead of writing them off as some kind of unique oddity, that’s when my bigger lightbulbs went off.
Everything changes once you move your highest intentions post impact. This game is still very young, and I’m sure in the history of humanity, people spent a lot more time thinking the earth was flat, than the concept we understand today.
Like many things, the swing is simple once you know how to do it…but until then, it is anything but.
I have tried to give Gerry’s analysis a more quantitative flavor by relating it to clubhead impact speed.
Have a look.
“Let’s change this particular wagon wheel about a bit and see what happens. In this experiment the wheel always remains the same weight, overall.
First…let’s reinvent the spokes. Here we are going to take weight from the RIM and move that weight up to the top half of the spokes. Obviously, the more weight we shift from the RIM and the closer we fix it to the center, the greater the acceleration potential, from a given energy source.
Let’s now go the other way. We shift every gram we can out of the spokes and place it in the RIM. The more we shift, the more energy we are going to need to maintain the same acceleration potentials. This is the flywheel effect.”
Anyone who has used a baitcaster style fishing reel (eg Shimano Curado) will see this effect when you set the “centrifugal braking system”. I’m still amazed at how well this simple system works. Applied to a golf club’s design there must be a lot of fun for the testers.
Whiteman[i] Anyone who has used a baitcaster style fishing reel (eg Shimano Curado) will see this effect when you set the “centrifugal braking system”. I’m still amazed at how well this simple system works. Applied to a golf club’s design there must be a lot of fun for the testers.
[/i]
Now, there is a great little baitcaster..I have had the Curado CU100B for quite a few years! I fish ultra light.
You may be a lot closer than you think! Consider the image of the ice skater or ballerina; the tighter they pull themselves into a single axial rotation, the faster they spin. To decelerate, they move the masses of both arms outwards and away from the body. The golfer who pushes or allows the arms to move wide in the downswing also forces them to move proportionally upwards, in an arc. The further away they go, the higher they go. The higher they go, the greater their CP on the shoulders/ upper torso. And then the effects on involuntary balance come seriously into play. And that is a serious issue.
[i]Mandrin[/i]...you might have some fun with that aspect as you do show a capacity/capability for higher analytical prowess. But don't overlook the extended lever weight of the clubhead and shaft either, and their respective rates of acceleration. (There is an interesting little [i]gremlin[/i] hiding in that bundle too about acceleration rates, masses, CP etc on [i]involuntary[/i] balance. The word [i]involuntary[/i] is emphasized for a valid reason :wink:
(The fans/ follows of Moe Norman and his unique golf swing will find much of value to them there, if they care to look carefully!)
It’s well worth SWEEEEEPING some balls away (for the sheer fun of it) while holding the hands/ arms forcefully in much closer to the thighs and merely ‘turning around’. Tee the ball about an eight of an inch and just SWEEEEP it away with a five iron while holding yourself tightly together and ‘in close’ with hands low. This relates to the downswing only, of course. You have nothing to lose and just might learn something of value 
Have a good’un (Aussie for have a nice day).
Gerry
…
[i]
Thanks for the effort that you put in there. I do appreciate it. There is no competition, there is only a search for reality. There is more to this aspect relating to BJ and his golf swing/ golf clubs that does go much deeper, perhaps we could visit there sometime soon?
Please note that I have taken the liberty of mentioning you directly in a post this date to White man, for all the right reasons.
Gerry
Just going back to a previous topic “chicken winging” which we have discussed before. I came across some footage of Hogan and Knudson that I think show’s this tendency in both swings:
Knudson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-ueL7dt53I
Hogan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuQfQoQBvMM
Henry Cotton describes this as “the left arm to taking the hit”
Cheers, Arnie
Gerry, I too have the 100B. It has caught some serious Barra (and no, I don’t fish light - 30lb braid!).
So are you saying, for example, that taking an inch or two off the length of my driver will give me more control - easy concept to digest - but may also allow for an increase in shaft rotation speed? And if so, does this compensate the loss of club head velocity from having the club head closer to the centre of the swing circle?
Back in fishing terms, I can cast my 5’ rod much further than the 6’ rod and more accurately - I thought this was because I have much better control and know exactly when to release but maybe it’s to do with what you are on about? Or am I completely off track?
Gerry,
Lag has also pointed out that Hogan and Moe were alike ,but at different impact extremes of the range of motion…from hands plane(Hogan) to shoulder plane( Moe).
Those that get their hands lower,thus closer to the body, benefit by spinning faster with the SAME or less effort. If ones body is a drum cylinder, and the arms are a stick with a weight on the end and pointing out nearly at 90 degrees, …then a motor suppling constant effort will can cause the drum to spin,and if the stick starts to move downward , the drum will accelerate it’s rate of spin as the stick gets closer and closer to approaching the edge of the drum…WITHOUT any increased effort of the motor.
This accelerating acceleration of the drum is due to several factors. One, the weight getting closer to the center causes it, even if it is moving at a constant rate. Two, as it moves, the percent closer increases for each degree it moves ( 90 Degrees falls to 80= 11%…10 degrees falls to 5 = 50 %…1 degree falls to 0= 100%), and three, if gravity is causing the move( as in an upright stance), then the fall is happening at an accelerating rate , and fourthly, if we add muscular effort to help the fall , then the drum will spin even faster. Finally, five, as the weight gets closer to the center, there is less wobble( the drum likes all it’s weight evenly distributed…it will spin smoother and faster), so presumably a smoother faster spin.
So it would seem that golfers that allow or cause their arms to get close to their body as the downswing occurs, take advantage of this…even with a constant effort, they spin faster and faster. On top of this…if they add properly controlled muscular effort to gravity in the proper sequence… via the pivot , arms, and wrists…they can gain even more acceleration.
This example does not consider the fact that the arms and club are not simply a stick with a weight…but rather two sticks joined by either a flail or and active motor…I haven’t thought that one through yet. Neither does it address what you said about balance( unless the final factor mentioned fully covers that).
This cylinder /drum model is similar to one used in Trolio’s book(Final Missing Piece), but there he does not address the arm/ stick and how it’s position can affect acceleration. He is considering the positioning of the axis of spin of the drum on spinnning speed.
An advantage of the arms being closer to the body, I think, is that the margin of error feels less. When I was swinging well yesterday this was the feeling that I had.
Sure, the orbit pull is a much stronger sensation if you are in tighter… Hogan and Knudson were all over that move…
one of my favorite moves… and one of the all time greatest ball strikers…
Lag,
What about LT’s longevity as a ball striker, I would not want his golf swing if all the back surgery had to come with it. 
Hmmmmm… I thought the back surgery was more about the lightning strike than his swing. That guy hit an awful lot of golf balls up until 1975 and I don’t recall him having back issues during that time.
Now Couples… a pretty different motion but there’s some back issues I wouldn’t want.
robbo
agreed robbo—LT doesnt make a big deal about it, but I think his latest interview makes
lightening the culprit…
I have noticed that guys with steeper shoulders going through impact seem to “in a very general sense” have more back trouble than the players who rotate more level.
Trevino was pretty steep with his shoulders, which probably cost him some free power had he used a flatter rotation through the ball. The faster the left shoulder moves away from the ball post impact, the more powerful your golf swing will be (assuming apples to apples and other good things are lining up before impact)
Regardless, Trevino’s move was still very strong, in a slightly abbreviated way, but I can see where this might have put a bit more strain on his lower back.
It’s a tough thing to really nail down… how a golf swing can create back trouble… because the human body can really adjust to some awkward motions over time, and muscles can work to counteract things that we aren’t aware of.
O Grady has had back trouble, and he turns flat, and is obviously very balance being able to rotate left or right handed. It’s still a lot of speculation’
I can only speak from my own experience, that steeper shoulders, and a more reverse C type finish, or Mac’s “tailbone thrust” thing do pinch my lower back,
and if I was hitting 300 balls a day or more, I would probably be going to the chiropractor weekly if I was swinging like that.
G’day Gerry
I’m glad to see you’re still ‘fighting fit’ 
I bought your book when it first came out and your video when it became available and have got a lot out of both.
However, to my golf’s detriment, I’ve allowed myself to go down other paths instead of sticking to your simple precepts.
Since finding you on the internet and reading your posts on Lag’s great site, I’m inspired to just stick to your straight forward approach and overcome my current ‘paralysis through analysis’.
If I may, a question re. locking the hands at the top of the backswing.
Do you feel this occurring during your backswing or do you actually initiate the two opposing pressures (left thumb and right middle fingers) at the top prior to starting down.
Cheers mate
Wilkie
Think about things when you are drilling, not hitting balls… or on the course…
If it’s not in your swing DNA, it’s simply not in your swing DNA. You can’t force it…
Let improvement happen slowly and incrementally over time.