Let's Talk Lag's Golf Machine

Haven’t been here for a while and just catching up on this thread. Couple of points that jumped out.

First was that from my understanding of what Bio’s training is intended to do, it is exactly what Gerry is talking about in regard to making the correct movements natural and subconscious. It seems to have been a point of contention but my understanding is that they are both saying the same thing. I also suspect that Lag is doing something similar in his drills - seeking to make certain motions automatic (swing DNA).

What I have found since doing Bio’s PST is that my swing DNA has changed substantially. Bio does not define any particular pattern so everyone could change differently - for me I have become shorter and flatter. But more importantly my swing on the course is purely natural. I have no swing thoughts … or at least I try not to!

While the PST exercises that Bio has given me do include movements that resemble a golf swing, Bio has made it very clear that I am not to try and perform them in my actual golf swing. They are purely exercises to train my movement patterns. Of course I didn’t listen and tried to hit the ball like a PST exercise. It wasn’t pretty. Some of the PST though look nothing like a golf swing, don’t involve a club, and so do not have anything to do with golf mechanics.

The second is that I think I understand what Bio means when he says that if you look at the PST exercises through the lens of a proper golf swing then it will look terrible. For example one of the exercises I do is to swing a weighted shaft into an impact bag. The weighted shaft is not a golf club and isn’t meant to be one - for example the weight is a cylinder with no face to square. The swing involves setting up basically upright with the bag raised off the ground. There is no “stance” as such, although I do grip the “club” with my golf grip. I take the “club” away and then reverse it’s direction as quickly as possible. To the uninitiated this could look like practising a golf swing. To anyone here it obviously would be a terrible way to hit a golf ball.

But if somebody here tried to assess the exercise against a quality golf swing it would be a complete failure. And that is where it is different to the sort of training that Lag does. His training specifically is aimed at creating a quality golf swing, and improving the swing DNA of his students. Bio is trying to change an issue with my movement pattern. If someone with a different movement issue did this exercise it could actually make them worse.

What I think the difference between the training is is that Lag will train you to optimally apply the movement patterns you have to strike a golf ball effectively. His training is all about developing an unconscious quality golf swing. Bio’s is about developing quality unconscious ways of creating speed; to swing a club or bat, or throw a ball. I understand he also has training for runners and cyclists that are aimed at creating speed and power in the legs for locomotion.

For me I have definitely found that the PST is improving my golf swing. Unfortunately I don’t get to play very often but on the back nine earlier this week, when I finally remembered to get my conscious mind out of the way and not try and hit the ball hard - at least most of the time - I hit 6 over. My previous rounds were 100 and 96, so my 88 on the day was excellent and the 42 on the back nine was my second best nine holes ever. There is no doubt in my mind that the PST has positively influenced my ball striking. But it is also the many years of grinding away at the range before taking up PST that means that I have a decent set up and educated hands.

Of course, Lag’s training also helps develop physical strength for golf. The PST doesn’t - although again I understand that Bio’s group provide conditioning training, but it is separate from the PST (oh, PST means Progressive Skills Training).

Personally I have a huge curiosity about the golf swing. It has probably been my nemesis for improving over time because I keep tinkering. What Bio has shown me when I was initially looking into his program is fascinating. And it explained a lot of things that I struggled with. Not just in the sense of why I was unable to copy the swings of other pros, but also why tips and tricks sometimes work for people - at least for a while.

Thanks for the insightful post.

Anytime we are training our muscles to do something different, act in a different way than they did before, as well as change their ability to do so… we are changing the biomechanical action of our body.

I couldn’t agree more that the best way to hit a golf ball better is going to be done through biomechanical work.
If we just change mechanics, such as grip, stance, alignment, backswing path, position at the top, and so forth… it usually fails because most golfers don’t have any idea how to release the golf club properly, and from the right dynamic attitude.

Go look at any driving range and you will find great looking setups, backswings, positions at the top and so forth, yet the golfers struggle to keep the golf ball on the planet.

Ending up with a flatter shorter golf swing that delivers more power into the impact arena tells you, you are on the right path!

Keep it up, and keep us posted on your progress!

Lag, do you place much importance on the feeling of driving the right shoulder through the ball?

You really can’t move one shoulder without moving the other…

The pressure points of pivot rotation are in the armpits of BOTH SHOULDERS! not just the left.
I was recently reminded of how much pressure is in everything right side this last year after injuring my right elbow.

Where the pressures are distributed depends upon how much pressure you apply into the armpits (squeeze) and that will set the stage for where you feel it…

Same thing with the hands… I grip with equal pressure in both hands… and have calluses on the fingers of both hands … more on the ring and middle fingers of my right hand, so I have never bought into the TGM version that the right forefinger is the only pressure point in the right hand. Anywhere the hands are touching the grip of the club is a pressure point if you grip it firmly… and if you are hitting… you better be gripping it firmly.

Because the club is twisting, torquing, pulling, shifting…it’s absurd to assume that the pressure in the hands is simply on one spot in the hands… it’s in motion, and constantly transferring location.

Lag, I posted my question to you before I was to have a session with my coach this morning. I have been fighting a big draw/hook for a while and a couple of days ago I started turning my right shoulder into the ball (that was the “thought”) - a la Robert Allenby who seems to me to have a pronounced right shoulder turn - almost a dip - and wouldn’t we all like to hit irons like Robert? And the results were much better ball flight and consistency.

When I went through this with my coach today he was very supportive and explained that my shoulders have a tendency to get off plane through the hitting zone. By concentrating on driving the right shoulder through the ball it is the key to keeping the shoulders on plane throughout. It is amazing when you hit a ball 30% higher that it goes so much further with a softer landing.

I talked to him about the hands through the swing and he’s happy that they are working properly so no need to go into the science of what they do - he’s not keen on info overload for the sake of it. I do grip a little tight and have more pronounced calusses on my right hand and both ring fingers have a “sharp edge”.

Have you read any of Bob Rotella’s stuff such as Golf is not a game of Perfect?

Sounds good…

The ball doesn’t lie… If you’re hitting it good, you’re doing good things rest assured.

I have never read Rotella, as any mental stuff for me came out of different disciplines than golf.
The best mental stuff happens when you improve your technique. Flushing the ball is a great way to feel confident about your game.

Understanding how your body reacts under pressure is key. Most people tense up and swing shorter. So I simply designed my swing to accommodate
that reality. Then learned to get a lot more comfortable shooting high, because that helped me get more comfortable shooting low on good days.

There is a process for each shot that inevitably ends with living with the results. Once you learn to live with the results and take yourself out of the equation, you can pretty much bypass a lot of the things most people fret over.

A round of golf is nothing more than moving through an experience with the best of intentions.

Thanks for a great year Lag. Roll on 2010.

Greetings all from snowbound MI. I’m a senior who just got his first computer this past Christmas so bear with me if I make mistakes. Just wanted to say hello and want to join the mix. I’ve been the head pro @ Riverbend Driving Range for longer than I care to remember for what that’s worth, but this site is really cool and looking forward to discussing whatever the day brings. Mr. Lag, saw your comments on ISG and it was fun listening to someone who knows golf facts versus golf discussion. Took me many years to discover that the clubhead does not sit on the base plane line at address- the tip of the shaft does. That’s it for now. Happy New Year!!!

Welcome Range Rat! We look forward to you contributing to the forum. It will be interesting to hear more about the tip of the shaft idea.

Happy New Year to all on the ABS forum!

Thanks for the welcome. Finding it a little difficult to navigate around but that speaks to my computer ignorance and not the site. When more comfortable I will interact more. Mr. Lag is correct, communicating in words is quite difficult but I will try by best to explain the tip of the shaft. LOOK, LOOK, LOOK…when the club is soled the clubhead and hosel join at one discreet point- which is the base plane line. The clubhead at address then would be outside that plane line as you look down and the center of the clubface is then on the sweet spot plane and parrallel to the base plane line at seperation but somwhat open (depending upon the hinging used) in relation to the base plane line at impact fix. Your mission: get the tip of the shaft to the sweet spot plane while using an inside move- good luck. Hope this helps. Can’t wait to let you guys in on a little secret, but I need to speak with Mr. Lag about it first. Later

It’s a new year and I’m a newcomer today so lets have some fun since the cold in Michigan precludes hunting pins!!! Regarding Hogan’s secret: I agree with Mr. Lag- his movements have been sliced and diced and will beforever. BUT, there is what I call the Hogan’s Template. Not sure if he had a hand in in or not (Mr. Lag can probably tell us), but in all my years in golf I have not heard anyone ever mention at any level what I am about to reveal- and at great risk of sounding one step away from medicated weekends. The secret of the template is not directed toward a particular move rather what the entire motion looked like to him on a conceptual basis. Because we all know that any endeavor should always place concepts before action for the most successful result. HERE WE GO… HAVE FUN AND REMEMBER YOU HEARD IT HERE!!!

Look closely at Hogan’s sunbust logo with his initials inscribed in the center. His initials caputures what he did as his overall motion. The “H” has 2 nearly parallel lines which represent the base and sweet spot plane line respectively. Notice the crossmember on the “H” is the forward leaning shaft. The elipses which form the “B” loops shows the path of the hands back and post impact. Had enough…let me know and we can discuss further. Oh yeah, hold it up to the horizon and tell me what you see. This is much more that just a logo…it is his secret!!!

That’s some creative insight…

I came to the same conclusion watching “The Wizard of Oz” while playing “Dark Side of the Moon” backwards.

But seriously…
It’s amazing what we can see if we keep open to the hidden secrets! :sunglasses:
Personally, I think Hogan was very cryptic with a lot of what he said… and Moe too…

tell us more…

I won’t rule anything out…

That’s what happens on those long summer days at the range watching countless balls being used and abused. Me and the other pro go on so many tangents to keep our sanity it is in itself insane. I’ll have to pipe some “Floyd” music out to the tees for further inspiration- hey, where can I get some ruby red golf shoes! I have enjoyed my first day on your site and I hope my everyone had fun with the comments- for example: Hogan’s hands crashing left after impact is seen by the upper loop of the “B” being narrower and inside that of the the lower"B". Allright!!!enough already HA. Ha

Ron Howard might be interested in making a film about it.

If he’s got enough money left after the last two he shot… :smiling_imp:

To Aiguille:

Reread what I wrote regarding the shaft tip and made an error. Geez, communicating in written form is too tough!! My comment suggested bringing the tip of the shaft to the sweet spot plane. What I meant to say was the mission is to bring the clubhead down and out toward the baseline plane line (as defined by the shaft tip/or end of the hosel) by using an inside move. At impact the tip of the shaft should be just inside the base on the inclined plane. Past impact the tip will move to the base plane line and follow it shortly before starting its upward/inward direction. This routine is for draw bias. It is an inside out motion but not an inside-out stroke relative to the base plane line. Thanks. Hope this clears things up.

Good thing he wasn’t named “Samuel” or he would have come over everything, hit big banana slices and not amount to anything on tour! :wink:

Captain Chaos (who happens to know the secret to Tesla’s death ray, but the world isn’t ready for that yet)

Captain Chaos: Great stuff, now you got it, but please keep it a secret. Had a vision today about the old Tayor Made logo and its hidden message…place smiley face here!

I was up all weekend and figured out if you have two TV’s and have “Wizard of Oz” on one screen, and “The Hogan - Snead Shell’s Match” on the other… if you sync it up with the hand shake, and when you first see the yellow brick road, then every time Dorthy clicks her heels, Hogan makes a birdie.

If I can find a pair or ruby golf shoes, I’ll bet the farm I can break a Doug Sanders course record. :sunglasses:

Finished reading 80 pages of previos ISG stuff. WOW!!! WOW!!! Now I know my interpretation of H. Kelley was way off. Of course in my neurotic way I thought he was trying to get us to imagine a monkey sitting on our left shoulder nibbling at our left ear with the tail wrapped around the back of our neck and sticking out just in front of our right shoulder. Our mission: go up, grab the tail and swing that critter down the fairway- and everything syncs up nicely. And if the monkeys right ear happens to brush the low point we win! I think I should start my reread