Can you advise whether you are just connecting your upper arms to your chest area as you use torso pivot to create clubhead speed (and also square the clubface) from your P3 position (while also uncocking your left wrist)? Are you saying that your upper arms/forearms are connected to your torso and the whole unit (ie. torso/arms) are being torso rotated together through impact without significant rotation of your left humerus/forearm in the shoulder socket?
I am just starting Mod1 (3 weeks in) so I haven’t really ingrained anything good yet but when I try to include the principles of Mod 1 (4:30 path, open clubface) when playing, I am hitting a lot of weak push fades. Is the likely culprit a weak pivot?
I know for a fact that other issues I have are: raising the left shoulder too much on the down-swing, not bowing to the 4:30 line enough and not getting enough knee flex in transition.
My thoughts are it’s just going to take some time to “fix” my swing but can you recommend anything to focus on when playing?
Same concept with similar results. In the scientific world, this is called external validity.
Essentially… yes… but to the best of our own abilities.
I’ll throw right arm at it if I have to to get the ball around if my body isn’t
working as well as I would like…
But when I am really on my game… it’s very much torso rotation and very little right arm throw and very little forearm rotation.
But as I described in the video… the uncocking of the wrists feels like forearm rotation because it is happening on an inclined plane and the forearm rotation and uncocking happen in unison…
I would NEVER teach a student to focus upon uncocking their wrist as any kind of independent motion. I can just imagine how horrible they would throw from the top if that were even in the sentence.
You’re not pivoting well through the strike…
We hammer on that in Module 3.
In the meantime… just remind yourself… you will be hitting the ball better than ever when you get through Module 6. We have a 100% success rate with Mod 6 graduates… meaning they will have experience their best ball striking by the time they finish that up…
There are not quick fix bandaids for golf swings that hold over time. We are going to do things the right way and leave no stones unturned.
Thanks John. I look forward to getting better!
Isn’t Bradley Hughes saying the opposite here? Saying firing the forearms is what squares of the club face…
Module 3 is about post impact acceleration and torso rotation. If you don’t have good Mod 3 strength you will be hooking the ball (ask me how I know). As John says, to me it feels like once I get to the 4:30 line I just rotate. The forearm rotation and squaring of the club just sort of happens.
Well said Les. I’ve been working on this stuff whenever I get time since 2013. And I think the 430 drilling along with a hit feel with the body, arms at the strike and beyond has really helped me. When I first started I thought about squaring the face of the club into the impact bag. Now I just feel the hands passive with no conscious thought of squaring it up. For me now the squaring the face is more mod 3 with a full body turn past the strike. With the hands and arms going around low and left and the shaft more at an umbrella feel.
And you can never do mod 3 intentions by hitting early. It’s a feeling of collecting the ball and it sitting on the face being thrown towards the target via pivot and arms.
Infact back in the day Brad had a great post on Sitd where he loved this product called the slinger. Where it was a ball that would collect on the face with Velcro on it. Only way it would hit to the target was by thinking speed after the ball with pivot and arms synced up. Into the classic hogan umbrella follow thru.
Just thinking about the slinger training aid and its purpose really was a light bulb moment when I start struggling. Think collect the ball and sling it with all you got. Versus stall, stop , flip and square
Just my interpretation. Develop your own feels thru drilling is all I can say
I am also curious about this? Is it just a question of individual perception/ style in that there’s a range of workable combinations of pivot and forearm rotation contribution to squaring the club face from P3 to impact as long as there’s ‘enough’ pivot rotation saved for post impact to maintain pressure on the shaft?
Potentially Lag is more pivot less forearms vs Brad more forearms less pivot but both have enough pivot range saved. Does Lag having generally less plane shift in his swing influence the relativities?
Mods 1 & 2 train the forearm rotation so you don’t need to think about it when you get to hitting balls latter. Having a wide open clubface in the 4:30 position is key while doing the drills. The impact bag gives you all the feedback you need to train your forearms to square the club. It’s impossible to do some of the later drill work that works on post impact pivot if you haven’t drilled in mods 1 & 2.
Transition is really the key to all this. You need to get the club to the 4:30 line without using any torso rotation. Mods 5 & 6 really cover this in detail. Once on the 4:30 line, you “fire all guns”.
If I use zero forearm rotation, I’ll hit the ball about 12 degrees right of the target. So the forearm rotation does come into play… but not as much as people think.
Because forearm rotation and the wrists uncocking downward (about half way) happen at the same time… most of what people are feeling is the uncocking of the wrists to get the clubshaft back down to the ball… but I don’t like the promote that “uncocking” motion because it’s just something that has to happen to actually make contact with the ball… otherwise your club would miss two feet above the ball through what would be the strike.
That all being said… the forearm rotation is very important… it is a power source, but it’s really a great source to keep pressure and acceleration on the clubshaft.
In a nutshell… we need both great rotation and great forearm rotational strength and speed… which we train like crazy in the Module drills 1-3.
Still a little confused on this answer. When you say that “forearm rotation is very important” are you only talking about rotating clockwise, either in transition or the backswing, but not rotating counter clockwise on the downswing? It sounds like you do not rotate counter clockwise all the way through PV-5, but is it OK for others to do it (a little bit of course)?
The focus here is on the rotation into the strike…
It’s combined and in unison with the uncocking of the wrists… so both are happening simultaneously.
The quicker an stronger the forearm rotation into the strike from P3, the more square you can align at address (using hitters protocol). If the forearms are not as strong and quick, then you would aim a. bit left and play a slight push / block as your normal shot.
Knudson make the point about alignment… everyone has a slightly different alignment… and a lot of this is because of the forearm rotation difference between players. Ball position is also a factor and we cover this in great detail in the later modules… 8 and 9.
In a simplistic fashion, doing the Mod 1 and 2 drills will just take care of a lot of this stuff without having to worry about it.
We don’t need to “try” to do things… we work them into our swing DNA through practice, strengthening and of course repetition.
Thanks John. I never got to the point where I was drawing the ball (Before Mod 3) and I hit my irons very short which tells me I need to rotate them more coming into the ball.