The Norman swing at around the 50 sec mark of that video is a fantastic view of how the Shark rotated through. There is NO throw whatsoever. The club starts coming around his body on the move through impact and beyond… because of his acceleration… and then continues upwards once his body can’t go any farther. Excellent stuff
Too much throw the clubhead at the ball and then fold to a finish stuff going on in today’s swings That is all just time the dump into the ball stuff that relies on timing and becomes a day to day proposition of if you will play well or not…and it can leave in an instant even during a round…this is a huge reason why we don’t see consistent flush striking on a regular basis from players today
Two, about the wide backswing and late set, do you think that it can be used with the ABS hitting protocol? I know lag says he prefers to set the hands earlier than you and so I’m wondering about whether the late set lends itself more to the swinger’s motion. I’ve experimented with the late set where the right elbow doesn’t seem to bend at all in the backswing until we get to the transition, and I do like the feeling because it seems to ensure a nice rythmn and I think some of the module 5 stuff we work on in ABS really helps with it. Thoughts of you and maybe Lag?
Yes, wondering that myself. Two, also, what causes the clubshaft on the downswing to intersect the spine low? Trevino, Hogan, Norman do this as well.
Teddy,
I think it works fine- BUT- you have to have all guns blazing at the bottom.
Since I don’t really get to see everyone’s module work I wouldn’t make the call who should or shouldn’t try it. I think that is Lag’s call…a lot of it is feel and intentions…so longs as your Mod 1-2 and 3 are good…it may be a good way to feel it all with Mod5 and 6…
That is why Lag put the modules in a specific order…you work from impact back…how well you can do those first few modules will probably determine what type of backswing can work best.
that’s why we don’t really teach the backswing- you EARN your own backswing based on the other processes and pieces of your training.
I think you made this one as well. What a tribute, thanks!
Shows you how good those swings were back then.
[youtube]Golf Black & White Tribute - YouTube
Yeah, IOZ that was one of my early attempts also…turned out pretty well
Back to the right foot-- I mentioned Gary Player having that in his swing also…most probably wouldn’t really think that he did…see video below
Great overhead look at things…this is all about pressures and opposing forces. We teach this stuff here at Advanced Ball Striking because it can’t be ignored…most people do choose to ignore this vital ingredient of the swing unfortunately …as they don’t understand the reasons why or the way to achieve it.
We cover it real early in Module 2…right after the hand velocity 4.30 drill of Module 1…all in perfect unison to help build a correct feeling swing
Billy Casper too…there’s plenty of the older guys who knew EXACTLY what to feel throughout the parts of the body whilst it was in swing motion
Twomasters–I was just in the Vault looking at Casper. Great footwork. Something that working on ground pressures (Mod. 2) has taught me is that the loading into the ground on the backswing, the clockwise loading into the back leg and foot, acts as a governor on how far back you can take it. From there, coming down, it’s keeping that pressure on the right side and firing into the ground, and then the pressure eventually goes left. It amazes me that the greats just did this and didn’t think about it. I had no clue how powerful this move was, until ABS taught it to me.
Here’s a different view of The Shark- a rare overhead shot- Great Stuff…It was incredible that Harmon evaporated (on purpose) this footwork from Norman’s swing
[vimeo]http://vimeo.com/10571887[/vimeo]
This is without doubt a great angle to view the footwork and the rotation
I love the overhead angle, tough to beat. So obviously this footwork, or some version of it, is vital to real ball striking. Would you guys be of the opinion that this footwork is a product of doing something else, or having a focus on doing something else, or do you think you do this footwork and that then produces something?
The footwork is a bi-product of great ground pressure…you can’t just do it…it’s a result not a cause…not a slide on it’s own…lots of forces going on that make it happen…it is killer to helping the swing stay on it’s true correct path and gets you loaded for the post impact work.
A late set can create a lot of shaft flex at transition and this flex then must be sustained through the hitting area. For golfers who are not properly developed through the hitting arena, a late set with a ton of shaft flex at transition can be an over acceleration black hole…
HOWEVER,
If you are like Bradley or Greg Norman, then this isn’t an issue… in fact it can benefit their ball striking by loading the shaft in a way that promotes an aggressive action through impact.
So, it’s not really that it has to be one way or another… but it is a dangerous move for some amateurs that are not prepared for the forces.
I also am a late DNA loader, who at times has to deal with over acceleration… so if I can load it up earlier, then I am much less likely to have issues… As I improve my own module 1 - 3 work, it allows me to be more of a late loader and make that work.
So the real answer is…
it depends…
I reckon one of the values of the action, and what helps it separate you guys from the ball striking also rans, is that the right leg is still engaged through impact, which keeps the right side alive. Most people have been taught from very early on, that it’s leg to leg, and they get over there too early and ruin any real chance of strong speed.
But when you say ‘ground pressure’, what does that mean to you? Where does it come from in your opinion, why does it happen? I mean that in terms of your swing as it was prior to the changes. What aspect of your action do you sense required that foot action? Seeing as it was all instinctive for you, that must have happened to enable something you were doing, and that Norman, Hogan etc., were doing, that others weren’t/aren’t. I think I have a sense of what it is, but it would be cool if you could dig into what you think it might be.
Cheers,
BOM
For me because I had a wide late set…I had to have pressure in the lower structure…i.e my feet and legs…to be able to use that as a provider to keep the power sources that I was building up on my backswing and my transition.
Like you mention though it should be a transfer down and into the ground…so it is OK for the head to drop…all the greats did that, exerting some pressure downward…this move does lots of other great things in the swing also by allowing the weight to stay right even though we feel we push left…the footwork is not just a push off to the left side like so many people suggest…
If I didn’t have the support down below, it would become too much hands and arms coming down…which of course evolved later on when coaching gave me an earlier set, a narrower takeaway and less ground connection to base my impact and post impact off. I lost my ground pressures because all I ever was told to worry about was my big upper body muscles…and the top half over worked getting me steep into the ball (my shots to the right) and every now and then a snipe pull hook would creep in because of the steep downswing mixed with a quick roll hand release … which is exactly what we see today in many players of the modern version of the game
One of Lag’s original posts in his Lets Talk Lags Golf Machine was an article all about the body weight percentage of players at address, transition, impact and finish. It really gives a great insight because no matter what these guys say to the camera about thrusting their weight to the left side and so forth…the numbers proved they didn’t do it…ALL of them still had their weight over their right side at impact even though they felt they were driving left.
I think this is one of the big myths of the swing and in my opinion shows just why some of the ‘fads’ of the today’s golf swing mechanics just don’t truly hold truth… like staying on your left side- a la Stack & Tilt and some other beliefs.
I will dig the article out and repost it here for reference. It is very much GOLD
Yeah, I remember those alright- I even stole them and saved them on my computer.
I guess the thing that I’m trying to get at in this ‘inquisition’ is what you think made the pressure increase during acceleration, or what you think actually caused your right foot to slide back and grab the ground. During acceleration, what do you sense you were doing that necessitated that action in the right foot. Assuming we’re in agreement that it didn’t just happen, and that it wasn’t the cause of something else, then on some level, it has to be a reaction of sorts to something you were actively doing. Pressure is required, and exists through impact, but I think that’s because it was created by something happening. I don’t think you have the pressure, then do the thing, I think you do the thing, and that necessitates and creates the pressure. What do you think that was? I love question time 
Bom,
I am going to defer the answer to Lag because it really is at the essence of the Module 2 teaching, and I don’t want to overstep the mark and say too much about it all for the benefit of the students who are yet to reach that level…but I have mentioned the reason for it many times in the previous posts…
So I will return with a question unless Lag writes his spin on it in his own words, as he knows the reason behind it all…in fact he explained it all to me in layman’s terms…(because remember I didn’t know I was doing it)…but understood why I did it once he gave me his thoughts…as he was spot on
What makes something (anything…not just in a golf swing) give out and buckle?
The destruction of it’s foundation.
What makes a bridge crumble and give out when it is deluged with a massive amount of water from a running river?..Force and Pressure… The golf swing should be no different
AND
You have to remember the swing is not over at impact… 
I guess the thing I’m trying to get at, considering this is the “Twomasters- swing thoughts of the past” thread, is what you actually were doing during maximum acceleration that somehow made you reach down to your legs and feet, and use them like you did. So I’m trying to see if you can put words to the things you knew you were doing that you think may have caused it, not the things you didn’t know you were doing, because I think that’s the thing that’s important, all things considered. What aspect of your acceleration do you think necessitated or created that leg action? It’s particularly fascinating because we’re talking about something going away from the direction that you’re intently focused on going towards- there’s a significant part of your body going in the complete opposite direction of where your mind is actually intent on going. Many would think that it makes no sense at all, yet it obviously makes perfect sense. And no worries if it’s all linked in with the stuff you can’t talk about, that’s totally cool. I’m just feeling ‘questiony’ since I haven’t been feeling ‘posty’ lately. Plus, the coffee and the Liverpool result have me wired
You’ve posted in the middle of this so maybe it’s connected… I’ll post this anyway…