I used some PING iron back in 1987 when I was an amateur…and then started using them again in 2004
I always used X flex shafts
For the majority of the time I used blades;
1988 Spalding Tour Edition
1989-1992 Dunlop DP30
1992 Taylor Made ICW
1993 Tommy Armour 845’s
1994-1999 Founders Club 200 forged series
1999-2001 Mizuno MP 29 & 33
2002-2004 anything I wanted
2004 -2008 Ping
What do you think of this sequence I put together? What do you see Bom, RR and others?
Rickie Fowler and Sergio…both lay off the club and deliver from what would be deemed in today’s world as flat looking…but there are tremendous differences in shaft plane …this is why I think trying to keep the shaft up and down and pointing the butt of the club at the ball on an ‘on-plane’ path is bogus and can have disastrous results…yet it is all we seem to hear about…you can see the results yourself if you follow the red line (shaft line) as in the shoulder plane and the butt of the club and shaft line at impact and post impact
Obviously Fowler is a tremendous player but his time of the release and impact will be a constant chase compared to Garcia.
Garcia just has a problem putting which has zapped his confidence a little otherwise he would be right up there close to the top of the pops in my opinion.
I’m still going over your posts covering your ballstriking history and perceptions. There is a lot there to go over. Do you think the 2 days of only putting increased your ball striking acuity alone by tapering away from range work…or did your putting increase your confidence overall which then carried over to your ball striking? As for the Rotella tape…throw it away…you can have a Ratella tape for free 
Re: Sergio v. Rickie: The thing that stands out most to me is the R leg/foot action. Fowler’s R leg is straightened dramatically and has stalled his left action. Whereas Garcia’s R knee flex and carry is supporting the L movement really well. The other thing is kinda what I was getting to over in Rat Droppings with the song…Over, Under, Sideways, Down by the Yardbirds. Don’t believe anyone picked up on the subtlety of the song’s title
The thing that doesn’t show up on stills is how much Fowler throws the club into impact. Again, he’s the man, and I reckon he’ll end up as a No. 1. but in terms of technique, he does some crazy stuff. Sergio waits and is nice and smooth into transition, so when he gets to going, he’s in a good place. Fowler has basically already flung the club by the time it reaches the 2nd frame in that sequence, so he’s never going to keep up with it, or ahead of it. He’s really good at golf, so analyzing his ability or career based on his technique, is never going to do him justice, or predict how good he’ll be. It’s tough for me to say it, but I reckon he’ll end up better than Rory. It should be fun to watch them, though.
yes Bom…and that’s where I am leading with this a little
technically in my mind Sergio should have more control day in and day out because he will have much less of a timing of the hit issue than Fowler
Fowler has, I would dare to say, swung it the same way since day dot…so he knows what his swing feels like and he must have good inclinations about the tempo, timing of the hit etc to be a good player most weeks, so as long as no-one steps in or he allows someone to step in and try alter that- he will be fine…he will have his down times because he throws the club way off his body- but his instinct will correct it…maybe he hasn’t won yet because when the intense pressure is on- he loses his timing slightly?..so it may actually be an issue- that’s to wait and watch and see.
Now…when we get to Tiger, Mickelson etc etc, who swung it a certain way growing up, even with different equipment…and then they get coached and such and their old swing gets half thrown out the window, then we see the difficulty…they have a swing and a feel from their youthful exuberance (like Fowler’s is)…but they inhibit that feel and swing style with tuition and all sorts of other stuff (Mickelson seems to have about 18 coaches for chipping, putting, mental, long game, fitness, diet…etc etc)…the ability and certain flair and feel slowly subsides…Both TW and PM’s driving accuracy is atrocious…
I am in no way saying these guys are bad golfers- nothing is farther from the truth…but they are not consistent good ball strikers…if they were good ball strikers and added in the other golf factors such as their brains, strength, experience and short games…they would hardly ever lose
Golf’s tough when you are fighting a war on both fronts… the ball striking and the putting.
I am nearing a conclusion that the big problem between getting putting and ball striking in sync at the same time is because golfers view then as different things.
There are certainly a lot of myths to deal with… such as what you described… keep the club on plane the entire swing and putting straight back and straight through… which all sounds good… but really doesn’t work all that well.
Hindsight is everything, and I sure wish I could go back in time and teach myself how to play golf knowing what I know now.
Swing plane is best created by harnessing opposing forces which are striving in their own way to not be on plane.
Putt like you swing… I wish I would have known that one too.
Take full advantage of flat lie angles, and let heavier gear teach your swing and body, which also give you more feel while dealing with the rigorous traveling schedule. That can sure simplify the golf swing.
Take advantage of acceleration around the greens to simplify basic chipping technique and learn to be aggressive with bad lies in the rough rather than try to guess what the ball is going to do coming out.
Use a heavy SW bent upright for actual sand shots.
Stick to your guns and be patient. Not every golf course is going to suit your game, but stay open to learning how to play them better each week.
Know you can leave the tour at any time and be happy doing something else… because if you don’t really enjoy being out there, you are wasting your time and opportunity cost of your own life.
Getting back to 1998,
Do you think you were searching for answers as to why you didn’t play better on a more consistent basis? Or were you trying to just understand golf technique better in general so you could troubleshoot your own game? Or were you thinking you just needed the right golf instructor to see the magic formula and how to help you re create the recipe? Maybe a little of all of those things, and possibly having rabbit ears to all the trends and fads going around on the tour?
I was searching for answers as I was convinced I was doing what I was told to be doing which was meant to be based on what the best players on the planet were also meant to be doing with their swings. I just didn’t know that much about the swing and what I did learn sounded cool, but felt un-natural
When I would see the swing after it was altered I always hated the look of my club closing when it appeared on the other side of my shoulder in a DTL view…It just didn’t seem to match up with what I envisioned or felt it should be like…but again I was never a big student of the swing. I was never told this club looking closed was an issue so I just assumed it was fine, even though it didn’t add up.
The hard thing was I didn’t know enough to sit back and look at slo mos or understand players actions at speed because I only had what I had been taught as the basis of the swing to go by when analyzing. I would get split screened on a computer against all types of great players and get a thumbs up for looks from the coaching staff, so how could I argue that.
I went and saw Jim McLean later on (2002?) and he didn’t want to alter anything. I had Jim Flick telling me how good my swing was. Kostis only said I looked a little loose at the top…no-one was telling me any different to what my coach was telling me to do…so I just kept doing it thinking one day sooner or later it must have to click and off I would go and rip the tour apart…still waiting…
I wanted to understand the swing so I could help myself but like I said, I had nothing to base it on except what I had been told and what to look for if I drew lines all over my computer with the latest fanciest techno golf program.
I only really got to understanding the swing more when I stopped playing and had the time to work out what was really going on with all these great players, and then of course around the same time I also found LTLGM and Lag and I started talking, discussing and now the rest is history 
So true. If he started hitting it sideways on a regular basis, maybe you could start looking at some stuff, but by all accounts, when he gets on a roll, he’s tough to stop. His Ryder Cup last year was very impressive, as was the fact that he earned his card initially through a few sponsor invites- that’s no mean feat to say the least. It’s also easy to forget that this is just his 2nd year on tour- having been (a fairly suspect) rookie of the year last year. Like you say, time will tell, but to rip a guys natural instincts and reactions out of him, just to ‘improve’ his swing, as you discovered, is a dodgy road. Unless you’re a Faldo or a Harrington type of character who’s built that way, someone who likes to break down and understand the minutia. But that in itself, is indicative of what may or may not work. It’s as important to look at the personality as much as it is the swing.
Did you feel that you needed a different ball flight or shot shape to be gear your game toward the US PGA Tour compared to playing in Europe, Australia or Asia?
I know a lot of players seem to do well in Australia and Asia, and then not transition as well to the US Tour… some of course do like Greg Norman, David Graham. Elk of course familiarized himself over here with collegiate golf.
It is a different game… the TPC stuff compared to the Australian version of golf.
Rick Gibson was a guy who did great on the Asian, Canadian and Japanese Tours, but I think even he knew the US Tour was not going to be his style of play. Jerry Anderson played phenomenal golf at times in Europe, Australia, but his style didn’t suit the TPC stuff. John Morse also comes to mind as not really adapting well to the US Tour as some might have expected.
I know there are guys that just don’t view the US Tour as the be all end all, and see it as just another tour, one that has a lot of money, but not necessarily the only place to prove yourself as a world class player.
Were your thoughts and goals definitively aimed at the US PGA tour? Or did you see yourself being simply an international player who would learn to play all the different games with reasonable proficiency?
Growing up the US Tour was pretty much all we saw on television…we had virtually no coverage of European events or Asian events. We really only got the majors on TV and 3 of them are obviously in America.
the US was meant to be the biggest and the best, with the best courses and the best players. I set that as my ultimate goal.
I did however do my stint in Europe first and then onto Japan…gaining experience. I got some invites in the USA through being Rookie of the Year in Australia and winning The Masters. We got treated well in the US.
In Europe you would all catch the bus every half hour from the hotel. In Japan you could spend $200 a day on taxis to get to and from the course. In America they just handed you the keys to a brand new Buick or Cadillac and pointed out the course was down there along the 35 freeway.
In Europe you would go buy a sandwich and sit in a tent with the caddies for lunch. In Japan you would eat in the clubhouse and then just sign your name on the docket and at the end of the week get a bill for 567656789 yen that you would pay before you left…I worked out early on how to write my name in Japanese so caddies wouldn’t just sign food to my name !!! 
I couldn’t read the bill at the end of the week but I knew which handwriting was mine and which wasn’t… In America they laid on breakfast, lunch and dinner in all classifications of food, style. You want something special to eat, go see the guy in the big white hat and he’ll cook it for you. Everything was laid on…shoes polished and cleaned, free phones in the locker room to call anywhere in the world…pretty spoiled really…too much in fact
So America always was the big fish.
I think my ball flight certainly got higher as the years progressed to try and match the style of golf there. I was always a good wind player growing up in Melbourne, but the wind rarely blew in American events. The courses were softer and the greens stopped and spun. I was used to playing a more bump up style of golf. In fact some of my best events I did well in such as San Diego and Houston were when the wind was up and the greens were firm… I knew how to play that style golf better. What I couldn’t do was play Poppy Hills or Pebble Beach in February in the mud and have 4 irons suck back 20 feet!!! I used to have a nice little pitch shot that would hit and go jump, jump stop…couldn’t do that at most of the US courses because the greens were too soft…so I now had to try fly wedges 15 feet past the pin and then try draw them back to the hole…try doing that to back pins.
It also seemed that the more my swing changed the more spin I was getting…so that was another factor of losing my real feel for playing… I believe it was from getting steeper with my swing but again i didn’t know any of that at the time.
I actually made a great living playing Japan. I wish I had of stayed there longer. the food was good, Travel could be difficult with the language barrier, but the Aussies such as Brian Jones, Graham Marsh, Roger MacKay, Peter Senior, Wayne Smith and then others such as Todd Hamilton, Frankie Minoza, Carlos Franco…we would all hang out together and eat and travel and it made it easier. Plus Australia was only a 9 hour flight straight south with only a one hour time change, so you could still go home whenever you wanted and still live a normal Aussie life. America is a bit of a hassle to go live in for a foreigner with social security numbers, can’t get a loan unless you pump a bunch of downpayment on a house, can’t get a credit card because you have no credit history…lots of little things that add up and wear on you that were never a problem in the other places I lived or played in.
USA was my goal and I did it, but you are right…I wouldn’t have thought any less of my career if I had stuck to Europe or especially Japan, and those style courses definitely suited the game I already had in place.
TM -
We should have been giving you the homes, credit cards, etc.! Instead we gave homes to people who couldn’t come close to affording them, credit cards to anyone who had a pulse, and allowed a system of commissions for those writing the loans without oversight. The U.S. is paying for that now and we aren’t even close to being finished as the housing market hasn’t truly reset yet.
Well, at least my golf swing is improving and even if I cannot afford golf, I can just hop the fence and sneak on from time to time. 
Captain Chaos
Two,
Any thoughts on how this photo may relate to what you and G. Norman were doing? (Btw, I say G. Norman to distinguish him from M. Norman… )
Cheers…
I see that in relation to the following about the swing:
On the backswing the first body part to stop is the feet, then knee, then hips, then stomach, then shoulders, then hands, then club
on the downswing we should reverse the trend in the same order
start by replanting the foot, then the knee moves, then the hips, then the stomach, then the shoulders, then the hands and then the club
This keeps the club up and behind creating the angles and the lag
Most people want to start the downswing with the club and the hands-- throwing the sequence or stages out of whack-- gotta start from the ground up
Hogan is replanting his lower half and getting the sequence in the correct firing stages…
I’d see part of that is how you guys kept it more laterally structured in the lower half. The left foot works almost fully in on itself, so the shift is then instinctively lateral as basically the whole outside edge of the foot replants. You and Norman even went forward a bit with the left heel which I think is a telling move. I like that photo of Hogan because you can see that air under the outside of his left foot- it’s not just a heel lift.
Probably the best golf swing footage combined with music I’ve ever seen! So much to say about this…
Anyone any thoughts off the bat?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1KGYAZrNMY[/youtube]
Thankyou Bom…that was one of my early attempts at video…not good editing skills on that one but the subject and the content and the music make up for all that…it’s a pretty awesome video… The Shark was the man back then…this footage is from the 1988 Bicentennial Classic at Royal Melbourne
This is your doing?! No way, that’s unbelievable!!.. What are you talking about it being a bad editing job?! This video basically brings me to tears every time I watch it… no joke! it’s a pure classic in my mind. It’s so on the beat too- the strike around 20 seconds is so bang on!! Just magic…
Cheers, man…
Hi Bom - my thoughts ‘off the bat’ on the GN footage - thats one of Twomasters videos isnt it? Secondly, I thought this looks like GN has made his backswing more shallow and rotary than earlier in his career? He certainly doesnt seem to have as long and fluid a backswing as earlier footage. Interestingly to me, the downswing action seems pure GN from earlier so maybe this period was when he was first making these changes? I think his downswing became more ‘contained’ later on (if that makes sense?).
Twomasters - was there a time at your level of the game that teachers wanted to eradicate the long, fluid ‘late-loading’ type of action? I am just a keen amateur but when I returned to golf after a long, long hiatus, the pro I had lessons from spent most of the time telling me to ‘set’ the wrists asap…said I would benefit from a new gadget called Leadbetter Swingsetter! Lol.
Great thread BTW!
Zachs dad.
Ah, this video. Two, you’ve posted this before and it’s in my online file. I look at this a lot. For me, this is all about Greg Norman’s footwork. Look at that right foot everting, being dragged toward the target; and backshifting. Hogan did that. The Nine Inch Nails music is perfect, that ripping sound. I imagine that’s the sound Norman’s foot made ripping through the grass. All effect, not cause. All about superior vertical and horizontal ground forces and pressures.
Lag has talked about how he was hitting balls next to Norman and heard this sound. I can only imagine. Bigtime Module 2 going on…
I always liked the wider backswing personally…Nicklaus, Norman…I did it myself…Davis Love III did it…of today’s players Sergio does it very well…
We always used to hear in the 60’s and 70’s and early 80’s “Extend your arms away on the backswing, create the width”… then once Faldo had success with Leadbetter everything became about the pre set hands and narrower arc and the big muscles turning.
The beauty about the wide takeaway and late set is it pretty much downcocks the hands at transition with lag and on the correct path, so long as you start your transition move from the ground up…all it asks for is speed through the hit because you are creating lag and your hands and body need to fire near impact to get the club caught up…it really is magic stuff so long as you have the speed at the bottom of the swing AND beyond
Of course I then got coerced into the early set with coaching later on and here’s what I found with it - For Me-…The early set took away my width I was creating…I was more cramped at the top and then I felt I had to somehow create the speed again coming down that used to so naturally just happen for me. So I started to use my hands more from the top to get some speed up…then when I did this I had to slow my legs and hips down because all of a sudden my power source and feel was coming from an entirely different area. So my footwork disintegrated. Then because my footwork was worse off I had to slow my swing down even more to avoid hitting the ball sideways with this excessive hand action that was creeping in. I lost distance and couldn’t even end up using the newer graphite bigger head clubs to my advantage as I was scared to death of where the ball would go by swinging hard.
As we all know I had a similar foot action to Norman up until the early/mid 90’s…I didn’t even know I was doing it, but it is exactly as Paulc says…it’s a result of using the ground as leverage and having exceptional speed and rotation. We strive for setting ourselves up for this stuff with module 1 and module 2 and top it all off with module 3 to smooth out the edges. Module 5 and 6 are big on tidying this up and progressing it even more.
The Sharks footwork was beyond compare…but that little grip/slide with the feet was also executed by Hogan, Nelson, Player, Casper, Knudson, DeVicenzo among others and it is noticeable on most of their swings no matter the club, but more on the longer shots… Others did it but not to the same degree…but I am sure the same intentions were there.
Nowadays with teaching being backswing set and turn related the groundwork aspect of the swing has disappeared…that’s why we see a lot of guys too steep, flippy through the ball and stiff legged at impact…softspikes certainly don’t help and the longer, lightweight equipment should come with a ‘swing deterioration warning label’