12,
My guess is that you could use an “ABS approach” from a punch position but you’d be missing out on some of the benefits that can be had from the greater range of motion that pitch allows for. I think Ben D used the term “max participation” to describe some stroke patterns… I think that might apply here as well.
As Lag says though you need to have the horsepower pre and post impact to handle it.
robbo
Makes sense . . . . I just get spooked a little on pitch because I been screwed up so bad by some bad info. Currently . . . .I ain’t got the horse power.
Stumbled on this great video of Ben’s swing. The side by side comparison towards the end of the clip is fantastic!
Dave
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn85aqJLoaw&feature=related
Also this slow-mo! wow!
Didn’t the S&T authors attribute much of their method as a studying of Hogan? I came across this advocacy pic promoting Hogan used S&T because he fit into the image at top of backswing:
I was rereading this epic thread 
and found this riddle…
Does the Rat remember this?..
Whew…a long way over here from my rat hole. Yes, I do remember that very clearly IOZ, even without looking ahead. Hey, that may be cryptic…and I promised no more cryptic stuff.
Hope you didn’t use all your red pills on that great Hogan-Helix picture…get the pills you have left in order (sorry Dani) as something you and NRG may have fun with is coming to the rat hole…and which will give an idea to how many of those pills were consumed by rats back in the 60’s- a great era as we didn’t become extinct 
RR…Was the answer ever given?
…even without looking ahead… cryptic indeed…
Good that you have some persimmon coming your way! Or is it something else?
No! No one asked on the open forum as I recall…so it is tucked away in the rat’s nest for safe keeping. It’s not a mechanical, or technique based influence, although it can be. It is a more philosophical viewpoint…which you ABS guys are doing aleady anyway, so no big deal. 
I think this is your answer…
RR said…
From a bird’s eye view, that diagram is a beautiful thing.
No…not the answer I had in mind. Like I said, a more overall mental picture of the process that you guys are already doing and which Lag so beautifully brings to light…like no one I’m familiar with.
My overall position is this…and it’s nothing new: The best way to play golf is to look ahead to the future and what’s possible by being in the moment…and forget the past, it’s done. right? Where is the past during our motion? The past is from set up…take away…and to the ball. Where’s the future…it’s the post impact acceleration piece after the ball.
That’s what I meant by “looking ahead”. The intention of the process needs to be “ahead” of the ball via acceleration. Too many people play thinking of backswing paths, straight plane lines coming down, etc…and I was guilty of that too for some time. Everything they do is all predicated on the action being over at the ball…and that’s what they would call being in the moment, or looking ahead. It’s not…it’s a lot further ahead than that…and even more left than one would think.
That’s what I was getting at Eagle…Hogan and the other greats played so far “ahead” they were in fact ahead of the curve.
Thanks RR.
I’m hoping you just have some chores to do, and will scurry on back. In the meantime you will be sorely missed.
Say it ain’t so. 
Some photos of Ben Hogan at Olympic at the U.S. Open in 1966. Check out the follow-through in the second to last pic–a beautiful thing.
Twomasters edit: Apparently the link was redirecting a malware link: so it has been deleted: Lag has copied and posted the pics below in original form
Great picsThey are great quality photos- thanks for posting…looks like Gay Brewer in the bottom pic with Hogan ( the man with the whirlybird backswing and transition)
I have always liked this comparison photo I made up of Hogan from the 1930’s before he hit his form and from 1954 the year after his triple crown
Great pictures. Thank you.
TM: Do you think his primary changes were related to his pivot or finding the angled hinge or both or something else entirely?
Great pictures !! His club looks very long on that old swing ! Were he swinging extralong clubs early on? . It also seemes like the club is already engaged in the pulling at the beginning of downswing and the clubhead is pulling away from him, causing the hook he’s been fighting in those early years…
Im new on the forum, Ive been reading a lot of the posts here and I’ve learnt a lot. We are very lucky to be able to get insights of great players here, and having them share their knowledge ! Sometime technology is a great thing isn’t it !
I thought the same thing phdupey about the look of his club…I think it is a visual thing because of the extra long grip that he must have had on that club. I doubt he would have had a longer club so am basing my estimation on that but the grip sure does look wrapped down longer than normal
Welcome to the site
