Calm down for heavens sake! I am not Dr Jeff Mann and he is not talking to himself on the NGI forum where I’ve been a member for several years.
I studied physics many years ago and that’s why I’m interested in the science behind the different techniques. If something doesn’t make sense , I raise questions.
You asked a question in a previous post (apart from the word ‘Bullsh*t’ ) :
“In contrast , theres a real weak feeling of the “swingers release” where I really wonder how things are squaring up.”
So, I gave you an answer how a swinger can square the clubface with little effort, which you obviously disliked.
If you don’t really want to know the answer then why ask the question?
@dubious @JeffMann exactly, you continue to promote a swingers release on a forum that is against the use of a swingers release. It doesnt work as effectively at higher levels of tournament play.
Its obvious, You have this agenda to debate that reality. Many tour players here have time and tested that move. All your classroom diagrams and antics are just an annoying distraction from the x-tour players life experience.
You claim u have questions and Im calling out your bullshit to distrupt. Nobody here wants to swing like you promote. Been there dont that.
The down with the body is the slot move being preserved until the fabled 430 strike. Once there it is low and hard left. This allows the handle to come in. Doing this with a weaker grip allows the body to be even more active at the 430 entry. And pins the club handle even more to the chi. Which gives the view of the body being squared by the low and left.
You can’t get the 430 line to happen without a down move gravity drop starting transition. All great players have and are on the 430 line. They all do it this way. No matter how else they describe it. It’s very very simple really
Abs is basically. Infact it is almost spot on from what Jeff Mann preaches in his 350 plus hours of drunken stupor rants.
The drills get you there. Ingrain them; and then it turns into automatic simplified motions.
This is what angers Dr. Mann. He could never come up with drills for what he preaches. If you follow his info. You will be like a race car going in a continuous never ending circle. But the race car analogy of taking the turn is what I strive for as well
Orbit pull changed my golf ball striking.
Hal Sutton explanation of “pressure in the shaft” taught by Jimmy Ballard
I always enjoy seeing new ways of hitting a golf ball…
I haven’t explored cross handed …but would think it would suit better for a swinger’s release type.
Jeff,
I know you are really caught in the swinger’s release stuff… and don’t understand the hitting protocol.
You can’t know what you don’t know.
These are different protocols… totally different with different outcomes.
I take timing out of the swing by using body rotation anchored into the ground.
Right arm straightening and rolling over of the clubface are huge timing elements that we try to keep out of the swing as best we can.
Try it out. It’s impossible to do a swinger’s release. I’ve taken that “feel” with the lead wrist and applied it to a conventional grip. I’ll post a demonstration soon. Getting over a bad cold still yet.
I’ve corrected my previous post. I still think a swinging technique is superior to a hitting technique from a purely physics standpoint, but I would never try and promote any individuals golf instruction unless there are facts/evidence to back it up.
The right arm doesn’t roll over (ie. pronate) in tour pro swings until very close to impact. Did you see these graphs below?
Also, you can see, very close to impact, that the graph doesn’t show a very steep slope even as it moves in the ‘pronation’ direction (while still in supination).
I think your post is out of order to be honest. Why can’t you debate in some civil way?
What do you mean by leverage? Shaft lagging flex means there is a positive torque being applied at the grip via/by the hands.
Also, how can you tell if Peter Senior’s club is being moved in a hitter vs swinger technique? Unless you have a way to measure the hand forces/torques on the grip, you cannot be 100% sure. I regard ‘pure hitting’ as an active positive torque being applied to the grip via/by the hands while pure swinging is the use of linear eccentric forces applied across the grip. There is a bit of both being used in a human golf swing (and Iron Byron/Pingman) irrespective of whether you want a pure swinging or hitting action.
To me this is kind of an interesting thing to look at. Not to disagree with any points made by others about physiological effects, but I think there’s some physics here too. If I understand what you are getting at correctly, I’ll propose that you repeat the experiment with the club pointing straight downward. Now the swiveling motion does close the clubface.
I think that this is a version of Foucault’s pendulum. The only time a pendulum swings completely in-plane with no torquing due to the Earth’s rotation is when it’s at the equator, which corresponds to your example with the club at right angles to the axis of rotation. The more oblique that angle gets, the more angular velocity the club gets just by virtue of that rotation.
I really thought this was pretty neat when it occurred to me! I’d love to hear from somebody who’s into the science (I’ ma mathematician so know a little about it but should know more…), but if I have this right then the clubface should shut more rapidly as the wrists uncock.
John Erickson said he wanted the clubface to be more open in the early downswing to allow the body to pivot even more to square the clubface. So this is why I said that the clubface needed to point skywards at the starting point of my demonstration.
The swivel chair would need to be tilted at an angle so that the arm and club would be pointing to the ground. But the rotation of the chair at an angle (ie. mimicking body rotation only) still wouldn’t close the clubface (it would still be open).
You would have no option but to rotate the shaft /clubface square by impact.
The golf swing is a conical pendulum and (if you’re interested) you might want to look at some of the videos by Kevin Ryan (although he has now admitted his opinions on the Ryke effect in increasing clubhead speed is flawed).
We may be saying the same thing, based on your “conical pendulum” remark, but my point is that I believe that your claim of zero clubface rotation is true only if the arm is perpendicular to the axis of rotation (spine). My extreme example was just to illustrate that point. By the moment of impact the arm is nowhere near perpendicular to the spine.
