Just want to bring these pictures to the fore again…
I wanted to get some comments on how low the left shoulder appears even prior to p3…so its more a case it seems of getting the left shoulder into that low position prior to p3 then keeping it there through the swing…including post impact, which is definitely no mean feat!
Keeping the left shoulder low through the swing is vital if you are seeking to obtain a level shoulder turn…but its fascinating to see that almost no professional players appear to have anything approaching a level turn, maybe Mcdowell but not really.
Shoulder positions can be somewhat illusory in appearance as what appears “low” is really, or can be, level when compared to the spine axis tilt and/or forward lean of the upper torso. That’s what the rat thinks, and I’m sticking to it. RR
RR, thats the point,the left shoulder may appear low but is in reality level, yet this is not easy to accomplish nor is it visible in the vast majority of Tour swings…just musing on a little here but to some extent I wonder whether the level shoulder turn could be defined as the hitter’s calling card…instantly recognised from afar as opposed to the hand toss swinger’s move with a steep tilt of the shoulders through impact.
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I think it all comes out to be how much of the shoulder/torso range of motion you save for P3.5. If you have spent most of it then the only direction the shoulders have is to lift in a more vertical direction. So how do we achieve that. Bom has elluded to that. You can trace it to transition and the type of sit down you use for it. You have to sit on the heel of the right foot but also more importantly on the toes of the left. I think Bom called it a stabilized imbalance. I love that term because your body naturally want to seek the balance position of PV5 finish. If you are stable during impact the body will have to be forced into the finish.
Not sure I buy into the imbalance theory, I like the idea of having a solid platform at every stage.
However, I do agree that the less you can spend of a true big shoulder rotation, the more that you have available to turn through a level axis…which obviously gives more distance but also more stability because the prime mover is the torso rather than a flippy wristed hand toss of the club.
Quick anecdote…I got into a chat at a driving range in Ireland this summer with an 80 yr old chap, still keen as mustard about the game…he told me about a trip to Denver in the mid 50s where a major was being held and how Bolt was interviewed and said he had no time for the flippy wristed young whippersnappers…I think there is some relationship between a level shoulder turn and not being one of those flippy wristed kids.
A lot of this stuff is based on intentions…getting low and left with a hitting motion saving right arm creates bunches of good stuff elsewhere.
Kinda like this, but not directly illustrative toward this discussion but important nonetheless. Stand at address, interlock your hands however you do it as if you are holding an imaginary club…then with R hand dominance, take both hands and try to pick up a penny with your R hand that is touching the back of the left heel. Try to do that and keep the L shoulder high…good luck.
I think it is what it is, but through impact the left shoulder is higher and the right is lower, but in a natural angled rotational way. I see it as more of a structural thing. The shoulder levels, in a weird way, are connection to direction. A high left shoulder and a low right one is about staying on the target line in an attempt to direct the shot. This is probably why most modern pros are in that position since it’s very much an arms and club acceleration action and not a pivot driven one. Sergio and Rory differ in that, but in a more modern way I think.
Here’s some photos from another angle at different points in the downswing that show the levels as they are…
In a way, yes, but with the body, it’s not a steep strike which ‘being on top of it’ would sort of suggest. Being on top of the ball with the body actually allows for a shallower, cleaner strike. It keeps the bottom of the arc forward. When you drop the right shoulder and raise the left one, I see a lot of hand manipulation etc. to get to the ball, and you’ll have very little to carry it on through when you do get there. This would be swingery to me.
Aiguille, when you say or picture this, are you thinking a single axis action situation? I’m trying to imagine how a double axis solid platform would look or feel and I can’t quite get a picture of it. I feel like if it’s solid then it’s one thing. Any thoughts?
I see the ABS swing as being a two stage process…a two stage rocket as Lag describes it so vividly.
I don’t really like the concept of axes as this implies robotic and discrete planes whereas I imagine that the swing is continually changing planes and axes. However, to put it in simplistic terms, the first stage exist from a position of bowing to the 4.30 line with a deep, laid off club firing into impact with the hands and some of the pivot, the second stage involves a level shoulder turn, cutting it left and ripping it up to PV5.
What’s interesting is that I’d see that idea as more machine-like for some reason. I think because it seems to rely on a lot of conscious muscular force. No doubt that you need to get it into the 430 position prior to real acceleration, but I think you can harness and utilize some falling momentum to accelerate. I like to feel that my body is going somewhere that I can latch onto and take a ride with. This discussion could very well be just a feel thing.
I think the ABS hitter’s route does involve conscious and counter intuitive muscular force…I am sure that harnessing energy to accelerate is all part of it, the more accomplished, the more possible no doubt.
I love Hagen’s walk in and waggle, it has to be the ‘hitter’s’ waggle. It’s got all the things Hogan talks about with his. As the old Scottish proverb went(according to Jackie Burke, that is) “so ye waggle, so ye swing”… I like it…
Billy Dunk was a legend of Australian golf but never really traveled much to play overseas. He looked just like your everyday amateur at your local club but would beat golfers to death with with consistent tee to green game and terrific short game and putting skills…5 Australian PGA Championships
He resisted the urge to play much golf overseas and just played the pro-am circuits of Australia in the tournament down time picking up trophies and winner’s cheques at his own will.
I believe that in 1970 Dunk had the world’s best stroke average for events played
I remember watching him play when he won the 81 Victorian Open. I remember watching him on TV when I was a youngster but cannot for the life of me find any footage of his swing…Maybe one day some will turn up somewhere (if I raid the drawers at my ex wife’s house I may find some extra videos of mine she never returned and Billy might be roaming around on one of them!!!)
I only have two swing sequences of him in The Vault…would love more if anyone digs anything up…as Dunk was a real player of the game with all the right moves
Thanks for the sequence Two…never heard of him, but his record speaks for itself- especially 11 under after 12 holes. That’s outrageous. Looking forward to the interview. RR
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