I do not care if I am actually holding shaft flex or not. I do care that my scores and handicap have massively improved working with John. Simples.
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How do you know what we do or how we do it if youve never tried it?
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Spot on. I have always used the idea of feeling constant pressure (meaning engaging the entirety of my hands, body, legs, and feet) as a means of gauging whether a certain motion had legitimacy. If leverage dips anywhere before, during, or after the application of the motion then my sense is that I’m either doing it incorrectly, or it ain’t going to have the desired outcome. This is why ABS speaks to me personally.
This insistence we already have all the scientific means necessary to prove or disprove is ridiculous.
Perception is reality in the ephemeral motion of the golf swing, and I perceive tremendous pressure on the shaft during the transition all the way through to the shaft being above my head in rebound like never before. And the shots are STRAIGHTER like never before. And my motion resembles aspects of Hogan which in and of it itself is evidence that a combination of movements are correct.
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Cool. Would love to see that on GEARS.
It won’t work for me because that torso pivot and ‘CP arm release’ requires a lot of athletic flexibility which I don’t have.
I read about ABS a long time ago in these links below (do a search for John Erickson on the webpage links because these chapters are long and involved and difficult to pinpoint the relevant info).
Impact (perfectgolfswingreview.net)
Hand Release Actions Through the Impact Zone (perfectgolfswingreview.net)
Within those chapters there is an interesting analysis claiming Lee Trevino has a CF arm release action, not an ABS CP release.
How about use biomechanics to hit it straighter?
How many times in a round of golf are you trying to hit the ball as far as possible?
Maybe 6 or 8 times?
A narrow golf course is more difficult than a wide open golf course. Narrow courses should be the general standard for testing the better players of the game… pro or am…
Smaller greens are harder to hit than larger greens. Same thing…a more challenging test.
A more advanced golfer should be challenged by narrower fairways and smaller greens. This is what will separate out the better players… certainly the better strikers.
Given an adequate distance off the tee, any golfer will improve their game by learning to get control of their accuracy.
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I’ve really broken apart John E’s swing for a few months now. After he came out with his Orbit Pull videos. And his latest videos of him rolling a ball off his club face at a low launch angle nailed it for me. That is the sign of what the greats did for control and major consistency. Why they got those long bacon strip divots as well. That was post acceleration mod right down to a tee. His swing starts at the ball into the finish. Where your pushing the impact bag with all your forces down the target line. The body oddly will do it’s thing supporting this move. Where everyone else is hitting up on their drives now and flipping like a mad man for high launch angles. With their whippy 53 inch shafts and offsetting 7 degree loft angle. He is doing the opposite. My bet is hogan was launching the ball at extremely low piercing launch angles doing this. Great explanation John, and great videos showing what your intents are. Sadly people just want to bomb and gouge it now a days. They all have this goofy stupid look on their faces when they cork one 300 way left or right. It’s the era of GET ER DONE. It’s what the industry is doing to make the game cool so the masses want to play. Where swinging like a true ball striker like yourself is tough to promote at times.
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Here is how they look after they cork a big one. Forgetting the fat gouged wedge shot on the last hole that led to a triple. And waiting for the beverage cart girl to bend over and get them a water out of the back of her cart
There are some topics that may help accuracy but still not properly researched yet.
‘Rate Of Closure’ at impact.
Using a passive club squaring technique to help time the squaring of the club by impact - uncertain whether this involves less timing than solely using active musculature forearm rotation.
‘Drive Hold Hand Release’ actions as explained in Dr Mann’s website (link below). The current 3D systems currently do not operate at a high enough frequency to identify and measure ‘Drive Holding’ hand release actions post impact which should minimise ROC (Rate Of Closure).
Hand Release Actions Through the Impact Zone (perfectgolfswingreview.net)
Generally swinging the club on the functional swing plane as per Dr Kwon’s image below (although I don’t fully agree the hands being on the same functional plane).
There is definitely scientific evidence that proves external focus cues help accuracy, but that is more about improving/retaining ‘Motor Learning Skills’ rather than specifically biomechanics (hear podcast below).
Personally, I find it more fun seeing Tour Pros being challenged on narrower golf courses with small greens and lots of impossible rough/hazards with the wind blowing hard. I don’t find it entertaining at all just seeing long drives and short irons to greens.
“Where everyone else is hitting up on their drives now and flipping like a mad man for high launch angles.”
I think your mistaken because these golfers don’t do that and most of them you would normally categorise as swingers.
Capture images of DHers (perfectgolfswingreview.net)
You can see that they aren’t flipping the club through impact otherwise the clubshaft would immediately bypass their lead arm.
I played with Victor a couple times, very impressive in person.
Your getting yourself into uncharted waters delving into Drive Holders being swingers. Have you ever conversed with Kelvin Miyahira ? Gordon Jarvis? Or Victor Rodriquez ?
They are far from a swingers protocol.
Just stop while you can. This is getting embarrassing for you
One has to be able to take the data and be able to apply it to the golf swing and how they teach and communicate with their students, or just absorb it if they aren’t a teacher. But even then if you can’t apply it to what you see in a persons swing then it’s just more information that’s not serving a purpose. And sadly you’ve been posting data for many years online. If it was truly helping you; than you would’ve stopped. You haven’t and are searching all over gods green earth. Moving your goal posts in your favor. My advice is to seek a good teaching pro to help your game
“You keep saying you don’t swing like a pro or not trying to swing like a pro, but yet you are studying the biomechanics of what the pros do so you can apply it to your swing. What they do isn’t applicable to you. Pros don’t swing like pros. Jim Furyk, Brooks Koepka, DJ, Rory, Viktor Hovland, Colin Moirkawa, John Rahm, Matt Wolff, Freddie Couples, Tony Finau, Cameron Champ”
But all the golfers you’ve mentioned do apply linear force to the grip, apply hand couples and also create an ‘MOF’ to angularly accelerate the club. Those patterns are very similar from a kinetics perspective for the majority of elite golfers. Dr Kwon has his own 3D system with his own database of tour pros , while Dr Sasho Mackenzie another data set. The inverse dynamic graph patterns are very similar but of course the magnitudes of force/couple/MOF are different for each golfer. Why shouldn’t they be?
“They all swing differently. The pressures they have in the feet, how much their wrist moves, the amount of torque or forces they apply to a shaft, are all going to vary”
Errrr yes … more obvious statements.
“If you want to learn the biomechanics of the swing that’s great as it teaches how the body moves but we all have different bodies and leverages. You have to understand what your leverages are in order to figure out your swing.”
Errr yes… more obvious statements although you need to define what you mean by leverages in a way that I can understand without using abstract language.
“You would probably be better off watching videos on the movement patterns good golfers make like a small shift off the ball to start and getting pressure to be around 70/30 on the trail leg, how to properly set the wrist and when to set it, how to turn the hips and get pressure back to 50/50 by lead arm parallel and to 70/30 front side by the top of the swing and leave it there then slowly increase it into impact. Learn how the wrists flex and release on the transition and the trail arm unfolds to help shallow the shaft.”
I’m quite happy with Dr Mann’s descriptions of Pro golfers anatomical movement patterns on his website. Also I do look at grf data patterns for different pros using Dr Scott Lynn presentations on his ‘Swing Catalyst’ youtube channel.
I suggest you look at these different grf patterns before making such generalised statements like the above.
But @dubious @Fore_Thirty fore @JeffMann all have a right to crash this website bc nobody takes interest in their website. They dont have to have any interest in trying ABS or even go hit a bucket of balls trying their own science of the swing.
All they have to do is sit on their computers and keep hitting the keys that make them feel like golfers. That’s the beauty of remote golf. I bet they all beat Tiger every Tuesday in their foursome.
Tigers a hack!
Here is another post from another forum. It’s not me who is a troll.
You keep saying you don’t swing like a pro or not trying to swing like a pro, but yet you are studying the biomechanics of what the pros do so you can apply it to your swing. What they do isn’t applicable to you. Pros don’t swing like pros. Jim Furyk, Brooks Koepka, DJ, Rory, Viktor Hovland, Colin Moirkawa, John Rahm, Matt Wolff, Freddie Couples, Tony Finau, Cameron Champ.
They all swing differently. The pressures they have in the feet, how much their wrist moves, the amount of torque or forces they apply to a shaft, are all going to vary.
If you want to learn the biomechanics of the swing that’s great as it teaches how the body moves but we all have different bodies and leverages. You have to understand what your leverages are in order to figure out your swing.
You would probably be better off watching videos on the movement patterns good golfers make like a small shift off the ball to start and getting pressure to be around 70/30 on the trail leg, how to properly set the wrist and when to set it, how to turn the hips and get pressure back to 50/50 by lead arm parallel and to 70/30 front side by the top of the swing and leave it there then slowly increase it into impact. Learn how the wrists flex and release on the transition and the trail arm unfolds to help shallow the shaft.
I bet you could learn more about the swing paying about $30 for one of Monte’s swing videos like no turn cast, broom force or the efficient said
Large greens present their own challenges, especially for those who are speed challenged on the greens. Scoring is really about proximity, not greens in regulation. Some of my most disappointing rounds have been played on courses with big greens…you leave feeling like you hit the ball pretty well because you hit a lot of greens, but you can have lots of long putts, hit it on the wrong side of slopes and ridges all day, and 4 three putts later you’re scratching your head because you shot 78 and felt like it should have been 71.
Saw your swing - looks terrible.