Will your science make us run like that ?
I’ll try to explain this one more time… I really don’t know what else I could say or how to say it differently.
Certainly we can hold shaft flex into impact with a putter? Certainly chipping… certainly with a short pitch shot?
Can we agree on that?
If not… no reason to continue…
as I would just have to consider you’ve completely “gone” down a pseudoscience wormhole.
I want to see a videoed golf swing from the pseudo scientists on here. Just one swing showing your vast data and knowledge application in full display. With all of these mathematical equations- formulas it must be a thing of perpetual beauty
Or if you don’t have a videoed swing. Tell me what improvements you made since applying this info to your games. No bashing or name calling or finger pointing. I really love hearing about people succeeding at this devilishly hard game
One thing I would like to know mathematically is what is the advantages of coming into the ball shallow versus steep? What does this do for hand speed-overall tempo-angle of decent-an increase or decrease in acceleration
I don’t know. I would like to see some chips and pitches and putts on GEARS. I’ll see if I can find some data.
The forces and torques applied and the angular responses are certainly different than full swings, but so is the purpose of the shots and the delivery of the bounce.
I cannot say for sure, but I would assume that the best putters limit their force across the shaft. There’s a reason wedges and putters tend to have softer shaft than the rest of the clubs.
You mean shallow vs steep as in the clubhead’s angle of attack into the ball? The main answer is spin loft.
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Why is it I posted in this thread. And I got this email. And John just posted about pseudosciences. They are coming from all directions now
But there are always exceptions to the norm
Sure, there are exceptions to everything. If you’re hitting a punch shot it makes sense to have a steeper AoA. The ball will launch lower with less spin. There are Tour players who hit a degree or two down with the driver…they also swing at 120 mph and can get away with that. They’re doing it for a reason. But an LPGA Tour player swinging at 103 mph better be hitting up.
Same reason you tend to teach poorer players or lower speed players to hit a draw. It’s not that “draws go farther” because, everything being equal, they don’t. But everything isn’t equal. Poor player have spin loft issues and it causes them to slice, to have excessive spin, to have trouble with their start lines, and to get lose distance. Higher speed good players don’t have those issues.
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250 yrd Golf Drive with One Arm Side View - YouTube
This is Dr Sasho Mackenzie who is a right handed golfer who played one season playing left handed (ie. damaged his left arm badly). He’s a 1.6 Hcp but a proper world-renowned biomechanic scientist , not a pseudoscientist.
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So are you a mathematician?
Have a look at this which is quite interesting, at least to some of us who prefer to understand more about what is happening in a golf swing.
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This is a good post and it actually does speak to the technology aspect. For example, Trackman measures at maximum compression…post impact. Flightscope and Foresight measure instantaneously prior to contact. That’s why with Trackman you tend to get slightly more downward AoAs. My drivers on Trackman tend to be 0 to 1 degrees up. On my Flightscope I’m usually 2-3 up. It’s because they measure at different times and contact is deflecting the club downward. That’s why you have to understand the tech you’re using and exactly what’s being measured and when. Something as simple as different parts of the clubhead can be doing different things.
Ok,
You’re clearly not allowing yourself to use any kind of critical thinking…
I would explain this to you clearly, but I can see you are just too far gone down some scientific wormhole of modern analytical machines, graphs, data etc.
I won’t wast my time…
No, I pretty much just use feel to hit golf balls. I pull my Flightscope out from time to time to get some numbers. I study the science of it all in my spare time because I like it.
I quit talking to the 3 monkeys when they refused to let us see video application of their great wisdom. @Fore_Thirty @dubious @JeffMann
Much Better use of time like going and actually playing golf. Im pretty sure they can drive a golf cart tho
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I’m not sure I know exactly how GEARS is best used, but I can tell you it has nothing to do with the scenario you are describing.
GEARS isn’t a launch monitor.
GEARS isn’t a shaft optimizer or fitting tool (although the technology in it started out as a Taylor Made project that they did intend to use for fitting).
GEARS is a 3D motion capture system. It’s 4 ultra high-speed cameras, a package of very sophisticated software, and a biomechanical sensor system applied to a golfer with specialized clothing (vests, sleeves, etc.).
It’s designed to be a tool to study swings, specifically.
In the correct hands, it should be very useful, especially to very skilled golfers. It can give visual representation of things in real time that you can use WHILE you practice. The system has a monitor which is at the foot of the golfer, opposite the ball, which you can look at when you address the ball. It shows your avatar, and, for example, can have lines drawn through your shoulders, hips, knees, etc., to give you an extremely detailed and accurate look at your address position. So you can line up to the ball and get immediate feedback on what you are doing, much more accurately than you could with video. And it not only gives you these visual lines, it measures these things. And saves the data. And it tracks the positions of all these sensors through the entire swing, and you can play back and see exactly where every part of your body is, how fast it’s moving, what direction, etc. (AND the same measurements of the club). This is just a fraction of what it can do. You can compare yourself to any tour player in the system…you can compare yourself to your previous self. You can look at yourself from 4 different angles. You can look at your club move without seeing your body, and vice versa. You can trace the paths of the club head, the grip, your hands, your hip axis, etc etc. etc., on and on and on. You have to see it to believe it.
Somehow everyone seems to think that by arguing these two details - shaft flex and the acceleration rate of the hands - and using GEARS data to back up our statements, that we are saying that ABS is “wrong,” and that GEARS is a “modern swing” and is better than ABS.
GEARS isn’t a swing. It isn’t modern, or ancient, or futuristic. It’s just a tool.
And I can’t speak for everyone, but I know most of us are here because we are intrigued by the ABS method and respect the ability of JE and BH, and we know they have been successful in helping golfers. There is no argument with any of that.
Why is it so important that JE be “right” about where the shaft is bent at impact? If his method works, that’s all that matters. If he is correct that he has deduced the method Hogan used, that’s great. It shouldn’t bother anyone to find out that some presumption about what is happening to the golf club in a millisecond portion of the swing is not what we expect. It doesn’t change anything.
But arguing that it somehow isn’t true (that the shaft deflects forward), making up a bunch of excuses and obfuscations just to try to preserve the illusion that this tiny detail is in fact the way ABS says it is just comes off as silly, and, frankly, stupid at times.
It doesn’t matter! Those few millimeters difference in where you think the shaft is is irrelevant.
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I read a story where this gentleman is just happy to be a United States citizen. Not a mathematician, nor does he know a lot about golf. But he can do it his way
Kinda like his one handed swing way better than Sasha. Looks like one is very forced. Maybe studying gamma and beta forces took away from the swing as one motion. Versus do A-B-C-D-E etc
Please see this video from Dr Sasho MacKenzie which covers many of the negative comments I’ve seen on this forum about using biomechanics to help improve golfer’s swing mechanics. In his personal opinion he would use external focus cues first rather than internal focus (ie. body parts and positions) to try and makes a change to a golfer’s swing mechanics.
Dr. Sasho MacKenzie SWING UP to hit it LONGER, BE BETTER GOLF - YouTube
I do not care if I am actually holding shaft flex or not. I do care that my scores and handicap have massively improved working with John. Simples.
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