I like the improvements in the manufacturing processes and the better quality compositions of the metals in the heads and the shafts along with better tuning and matching. I don’t like heads which put the COG anywhere other than right behind the ball and shafts with real high or low kickpoints which create artificial heights. Whatever the ball does I want it to be because of me, be that good or bad. I also would never want a set of irons like all the Callaways with bore through shafts or any parallel tip shaft for that matter, but that is my personal preference rather than advice for other players.
I agree, a proper golf swing can hit anything… new, old, hickory… whatever…
The problem is that the guys who have grown up on the new gear can’t hit the old stuff very well. The golf swing itself has deteriorated because the necessity to have a proper swing has been taken out of the game…
You need a proper golf swing to hit long irons… and a proper golf swing CAN hit long irons from any era.
If a guy can flush a long iron consistently, he won’t have trouble hitting a hybrid… however, it DOES NOT WORK the other way around.
That’s the problem.
The game now is not breeding good golf swings… and we won’t see another Hogan or Knudson or Moe anytime soon… and that is simply a very sad reality.
Most guys on tour don’t even carry long irons… and why? If they did they wouldn’t have a chance to use them. Anyone can hit a short iron… but a long iron? no.
None of the problems with the new equipment are my problem. I know what to look for in a forging and a wood head no matter what it’s made of. I also know how to tip an S400 in the irons and where to cut an X100 for a bore through or a non in the woods for my swing. What ignorant people do to screw themselves up I don’t worry about unless their in one of my Anthropology or Sociology classes. What I do need is a set of leather wraps like the old Neumanns and more balatas. Hopefully then I’ll see you in Open Qualifying. High score buys the first round.
are macgregor mt tourney persimmon woods decent?
something like these:
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi … SA:US:1123
There are all different kinds and qualities. That set was pretty generic. C, maybe C+
well i just bought a c+ set of woods. lesson learned. we should get a basic good for buying persimmon woods on the forum, so newbies (like me) don’t buy crap.
thanks, papi
meant to write guide.
Doesn’t mean you can’t fix 'em up. But I didn’t see a model No which means they were probably part of a lower end full set with irons orig and if it were me I’d replace the soft white inserts and get rid of the screw in the middle. Never liked a screw there. Don’t be surprised if the shaft is really light along with the swingweight. But the good part is all that can be changed. When you buy fixer upper woods more than anything else you’re buying the shape, the way it sits and the grain. Hard to do on ebay of course but that’s the most important. I used a Nicklaus $5 3 wood for almost 10 years off and on that I loved after I tricked it out. I still haven’t totally gotten over losing her when she split right down the neck.
Papi
I’m not an expert but I’ve got a decent eye for bargains and what would be good- feel free to PM me with links that you might be thinking of buying and I’ll give you my opinion. I’m sure there are others on here willing to do the same- I promise I won’t bid against you even if they’re sweet!
Just a quick update on my persimmon progress. I carried on playing persimmon and the ocassional laminate through the winter here in the UK (when the weather allowed me to get out!) and got completely comfortable with playing them with friends and our group of regular players. The competition season has now kicked off here and again I suffered from my usual bout of anxiety as the first inter-club knockouts approached. Should I get that last remaining titanium frying pan out of the cupboard?! But I’m really pleased that I stuck to my guns and for my level played quite tidily coming through my first 2 matches 6&5 and 2&1 against an 8 and 12 handicapper hitting about 65% GIR which is good for me playing off 9. I am quite hopeful of making some progress on the handicap front this season thanks to ABS. Certainly my scoring this year has suggested that I can do.
One thing I noticed in my matches was that on the couple of ocassions when I did hit a poorish teeshot with my persimmon it stayed in play, whereas an almost identical shot from my opponent with titanium would fly/run further into trouble, particularly as conditions are starting to firm up. I know its a point that has been made often but just some real life confirmation. Also in matchplay playing first into greens isn’t the worst thing in the world as long as you are playing half way decent. My point here is not that persimmon is necessarily an advantage, though it certain circumstances I believe it can be, but that at my level (which would apply to 90% of golfers) and at the course that I play at, its a completely practical proposition to play persimmon in competitive club golf.
Anyway it has been interesting to chat to people about older / modern clubs. One comment I hear a lot is that the modern titanium clubs have extended the ability of older players to continue playing golf later in life. This seems to be a widely accepted “truth”. Logically you can see why people would draw that conclusion but I wonder if it has any basis in actual fact. When I was a youngster I didn’t have any sense that older players packed in the game at a particular point because they couldn’t carry their persimmon drivers a distance that made playing a viable proposition. Perhaps I wouldn’t have noticed anyway 
Certainly watching Paulsys dad strike a persimmon wonderfully into his 80’s shows you whats possible though I admit that as an ex tour player he may be a misleading sample of 1! You could put forward an argument that swinging lightweight clubs does little or nothing to help older players retain golfing fitness. What is gained in yardage through the increased potential swingspeed related to lightweight clubs is lost elsewhere as any attempt to use the body (engage the pivot) in the swing seems to decline. Having followed an elderly 4 ball round my home course a couple of weeks back all 4 swings seemed to have become armsy slaps. Would there swings have looked the same if they had carried on playing heavier clubs through their golfing lives? Who knows but its an interesting one to consider.
Cheers, Arnie
Great stuff AA—keep it up…
bent
Had my first little bit of success playing Persimmons in our club medal on Saturday, (only the second comp of the year). Knocked it round in 75 (par/ss72) and it was all to do with my ball striking too, cause i never holed a single putt longer than 4 feet. So it was a nice feeling seeing my name on the top of the score sheet knowing that i had beaten them with the old stuff. Not boasting, just saying.
Oh, and thanks Lag btw.
Good work…
Remember, the old stuff is also good gear, and when properly fit to you, it should give you an advantage. Your body will get better feedback, and your golf swing will improve from that much more rapidly than your competitors. If the golf course you are playing on puts a premium on tee shot accuracy, and clocks in under 6800 yards, the classic gear should be working to your advantage.
Nicely done!
I encouraged Neil (NRG) to overcome his typically British reticence and post a quick note here to document his success 
I think it is good supportive evidence that playing persimmon at club level is an eminently practical choice. I hope I won’t be too far behind in having a persimmon victory or two to shout about this season. But for the time being - well done Neil for leading the way!
Cheers, Arnie
Well done NRG! Inspirational stuff.
I’m glad AddingtonArnie persuaded you to share this with us…
-Just out of curiosity, what persimmons did you use?
Iron,
I was using a John Letters Driver and a Titlest Tour model 5 wood. There are some photos over on the How to flatten a persimmon driver thread.
NRG
Hello to the board. I was browsing the topic of persimmon woods and came across this thread in a search.
I, too, recently put back persimmon woods in my bag. I started playing golf in the mid 80s and started with a laminated set of woods from the Ben Hogan company. I was given a mid-80s Powerbilt Citation and gamed that for a year or so. I made the jump to a Taylor Made metal driver for a year between '88 and '89 but went to a Cleveland Tour Acion 588 driver. In 1990, after purchasing a couple more Cleveland persimmon drivers, I met a person who would change my perception about persimmon woods forever. Mike, my new found clubsmith, was a master craftsman and had a shop full of woods he was refinishing/refurbishing. I quickly became fond of the classic MacGregor woods from the 50s and his stories about them, and the players, only aided my fascination. At this point I had to acquire my own MacGregor 6 screw persimmon driver.
My first venture into the classic MacGregor persimmons of the 50s was a 3 wood that I found in a used club bin over Christmas 1990 in Colorado Springs. It was a Tommy Armour 945W (1953 model) and it was cheap. It needed to be refinished and was dried out. Mike took the 3 wood and soaked it in linseed oil for a few weeks then re-shafted it (TT S300) then refinished it. This 3 wood felt great, looked great, and performed great. It was my gamer until 1999.
I now needed my own MacGregor driver. My first set I purchased was a set of Tommy Armour 693s (1,2 and 3) and they were beautiful. The driver had no lead in it and the head was massive. Unfortunately I really did not realize what I had because I ended up trading that set for a fair set of M85s a couple of years later. The 693s were too nice to game so I continued to game one of my Cleveland drivers. I found a set of MacGregor Toney Penna TPT Specials on an early winter golf excursion in Myrtle Beach. I had the driver refinished and re-shafted to my current day shaft. I had finally found my MacGregor 6 screw driver, and EOM even. I gamed this driver for a little over a year when I decided to get something else. I was enamored with the M85 and wanted one (probably because of Freddie Couples playing one). I ended up trading the TPT Specials and the 693s for a couple of sets of M85s. While the M85s were very nice, I regret trading the TPT Specials and that particular set of 693s because those two sets were truly special. With the fascination for persimmon fading, I have picked up a few persimmon drivers, and a couple of sets.
Flash forward to today. I have collected a few persimmon drivers, the models that I had coveted (693, 945W EOM, M43, M85, M75). I still have my Tommy Armour 3 wood as well as my Cleveland Classic gamer. Most of my other persimmons have been sold or traded off. Now that persimmon woods are fairly inexpensive I will probably add to my collection. This year I am gaming persimmon woods, for the first time since the mid 90s (both driver and 3 wood). I have two 1950 MacGregor M43T drivers. I am gaming both of them this year. My M43T (#1) was gamed one round but a couple of fine neck cracks ended that driver play. It is currently back to my current clubsmith being re-shafted (from the original steel shaft to an Aerotech Steelfiber ss75 graphite shaft). I am currently gaming my M43T (#2) that is all original.
I have noticed that the distances on well struck drives (using a Bridgestone e5 golf ball) produces drives that are close to my current titanium driver/ball setup (983K/ProV1). I am only around 15 yards less. I live in Colorado so distances are around 10% to 12% farther here. This means a 270 yard drive will be around 300 yards. That said, my M43T (#2) had a couple of drives past 300 yards during my last round, including one around 315 yards. However, to achieve this I have to put a very good swing on the ball and strike it on the sweetspot. Shot making is at a premium with these clubs. Titanium metal “woods” allow for a greater area to mishit a drive and still gain the performance benefits of a perfectly struck ball. It was my feeling that my swing had gotten a little loose and the titanium driver masked the swing. I have returned to persimmon to hone my swing and to become a better ball striker as I was back in the day.
Attached are a couple of pictures of my persimmons. Thanks to the board for reading my post. I look forward to reading the posts in this thread, as well as the rest of the board.
Best regards,
RD
Robot
Here is a link to self repair instructions put by Lag.
http://advancedballstriking.com/persimmon_rebuild.doc
Great to have you posting here RD…your passion for the old stuff easily felt through your writing…
bent
Thanks bentshaft, I appreciate the kind words. I suppose as I get older I have more affinity to things from yesterday (or yesteryear). I have always had a soft spot for the persimmons since I started playing. I just did not realize the history of these woods and the players who played them. I suppose this is one way to take the same journey as the greats of the past. As far as my writing, I hope I don’t come across like some babbling simpleton. 