Playing Persimmon in the Titanium Age

Equipment The Persimmon Age (Steel)
61

Well, i´m going to loose my “Persimmon” virginity tomorrow in a casual round with my buddies (playing a 1 & 3wood Bridgestone Pro).

As the OP pointed out, i´m kind of nervous about it, and i probably wouldnt dare hitting one of the first tee, when to many people standing around (dont want to make a complete ass out of myself), and i guess before we start play i should by them all a round of drinks to cancel out the “ladies rule”, cuz i´m not too confident that i can carry all the ladies tees. But hey, you have to start at some point right?

I guess the most important thing is to swing easy at it, otherwise it will end in desaster. Any other things i should consider?

62

kafka,
Sooner or later you will bust one down the fairway past your buddies.
Try to act like you are not surprised and don’t look anybody in the eye.:laughing:
As you watch them searching the rough to find their balls, the euphoria you feel will be doubly enjoyable when you see them scratching their disbelieving heads and you see them sneaking curious glances at your gear they laughed at and can’t hit.
Enjoy it but say nothing.
They will hate seeing you have beat them with an old piece of wood.
Don’t be surprised if they wait to watch you tee off after that even if they have the honor.
They’ll want to know what they must beat and when they try too hard, they are likely to be in the rough again. :smiling_imp: :laughing:
Best to you.

63

Kafka:

LET 'ER RIP ON THE FIRST TEE… BAPTISM BY FIRE…gotta play this game for yourself and not what others may think. Short of that…do well. :slight_smile: RR

64

Hi Folks,
First post on here so please bear with me!
I was pointed towards this forum having made an enquiry regarding TRGA in the US and Im glad I came in as it seems like home to me!

Ive been playing blades and persimmon now for many years. Started back in the 80’s and came back to them about 10 years ago having flirted with Titanium and briefly with a set of cavity backed irons.
I would class myself as a social golfer who plays for the enjoyment. Still play competetive stuff from time to time and hold down a 6 handicap but for me, its all about the enjoyment of the game.

I have a patahlogical hatred of cast cavity back irons… no feel, no feedback and the same result regardless of the part of the club the ball came from! I want to know when I’ve hit it badly!!
I currently have my 80’s Maruman Conductors in the bag (Woosies Masters win model) that have been refinished a couple of times but am looking at picking up a decent set of Apex’s or similar to experiment with.

I have played with numerous persimmons over the years from eye o matics to Joe Powells to maruman and lots of places in between. Currently using a Louisville TWPD driver with a stock S300.

I love the feel of the persimmon and also the playability especially for links play.
Theres a great example of the advantage of persimmon that I always mention to the doubters who ask why I play it:
I play in a Foursomes tournament twice a year at a cracking links course in Norfolk UK. It is normally attended by some very good golfers and last year I was playing against a +2 County player in the opposite pair. He was a typical “modern” player with the latest “melon on a stick” with shiny shaft driver, that went miles (high and long). Conditions were typical UK spring links: light rain and 30mph+ winds :laughing:
Down wind Mr Modern was 50 yds past me but often off line. Into the wind, he couldn’t get within 50 yds of my drives.
With the ball tee’d low and playing for a low draw, the persimmon was still putting it out there a good distance. All my opponent could do was hit it skywards and hope for the best.

To me thats what golf is all about. A test of your skill against the course and the elements. Its not about hitting it miles or playing the latest club that someone off the tour is paid mega bucks to hit. Play the game as it was meant to be played and use your skill to manufacture shots to suit the conditions.

Looking forward to reading posts on these forums and increasing my knowledge and trying different clubs.

Always keen to here from any other UK based Persimmon players who would be interested in playing some golf (in the spirit of this great game of course) :smiley:

65

Wholejobs,

Welcome to the ABS site and thanks for a great first post. There certainly are a number of UK based persimmon/blades players on here including myself. A friend of mine started the UK Persimmon Society “small but perfectly formed :wink:” and we get together occasionally for games. Some play persimmon/blades full time others just occasionally but its a good opportunity to meet a few others who enjoy/appreciate the difference. You can sign up via Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=189830219415&ref=ts if you are into such things. Otherwise just drop me a line. Whereabouts are you based?

All the best, Arnie

66

Welcome to the site here…

You might enjoy the article they did on me a while back down in Australia

lagpressure.com/isg.html

We have two possibly three TRGA events coming up in the next 6 months, and we are slowly gaining headway into a proper restoration
of the game. The more we can raise awareness the better. But getting professionals back playing and competing with persimmon and blades is of high priority, because amateurs typically are inspired by what the pros are doing.

The purpose of the TRGA is not to compete or be in conflict with modern bomb and gouge golf, but simply to offer another viable and creditable alternative based off a more traditional rulebook… including stricter equipment guidelines.

Many other sports have fractured over time… baseball, softball / Football, soccer, arena football, Aussie Rules, Rugby, all are great games similar yet different. Billiards, 8 ball, 9 ball, snooker, 3 cushion and so forth…

The powers that be have decided golf should not be a traditional game… but those who believe it should, need to support the fracturing of the game.

Playing a golf course in the way it was intended from a design standpoint only makes sense. We believe it is easier to change the gear to suit the golf course, than to change the golf course to suit the gear… it only makes sense.

more at:

trga.info

67

Hi Arnie,
I have joined up on the facebook page and am always keen to meet others with a similar adiction to the “proper” equipment!
I am based in Cambridgeshire, East Anglia
Cheers
Chris

68

Lag,

when’s the next TRGA tournament. I would like to play in it if there’s room.

Papi

69

I too would be interested if there were one in the Bay Area.

70

Nice part of the world Chris. I played Cromer, Brancaster and Hunstanton back in June. Lots of fun! I am down in the new forest on the south coast but not a million miles away. Drop me a PM with your email address and we can sort something out I am sure.

Cheers, Arnie

71

Played my 2nd round today - and considering the garbage shots i produce after my teeshots at the moment, hitting Persimmons is really great. I had quite a couple of solid teeshots and the once i missed usually ended up on the left side as a slight hook which really came as a suprise to me, since i thought my bad shots would end up as slices (like they are so often with my modern equipment).

I couldnt even complain about the length, i´d say i hit my normal driver 10-20m further (on good shots that is), and my 3w maybe 5-10m - but thats about it. But i have to say, i wouldnt dare to go after it 100%, since the result might end up really bad and i only play reg shafts in my Persimmons, thats another reason why i cant go after too hard.

But one thing i absolutly love, is the ball flight, no “balooning”, the ball just seems to hang in there forever. “Now if they could just built them with a bit more forgivness…” :laughing:

72

I have no doubt that persimmon is the club of choice on a proper golf course… in my own subjective opinion here…
A course where you HAVE to drive the ball in play, and NEED to pick which side of the fairway to do down to open up the pin for the best approach shot options. Any course at 6800 yards or under with tight fairways and especially windy conditions, I would not use anything other than persimmon.

It also going to keep your golf swing in much better condition than a frying pan. If you don’t get good feedback, you are simply stifling your ability to improve dramatically.

If you’re frequenting these 7500 yard behemoths, then use titanium… but for me… I like playing good golf courses, and making a course longer does ZERO for making it better.

You could take the worst municipal dump, flat, boring, bad conditions, and simply move the tees back and play it at whatever silly yardage you want. Would that make it a better course? NO NO NO NO!!!

Longer courses also vastly increase maintenance costs, therefore raise greens fees, and are less environmentally friendly.

Leave them for the guys on tour… and if you like watching that kind of golf… great… playing it …that’s a different story.

73

Some Persimmon Trivia here in this article I found online…

74

My Joe Powell’s should be arriving this week (thanks to wholejobs) - I’m looking forward to testing myself.

ZM.

75

Thought I’d post some of my recent experiences and thoughts on playing the vintage clubs.
I have almost always played blades and mostly persimmon but recently persuaded Addington Arnie to part with a gleaming set of 58/9 Dynas. They were crying out to be hit rather than looked at so they went straight into the bag!
After a trial run in a foursomes competetion (alternate shot to you folks in the US), they were in play seriously in a medal this weekend. On a cool windy day they managed to drag me round in 74 shots (+1) which given my 6 handicap was pleasing!
As the set comes with a 1 iron, I took the opportunity to hit this on most tee shots. While this left me a little further back than with a driver, I had great fun hitting 1 irons into the long par 4’s and 5’s.
Theres no better feeling than flushing two 1 irons onto the front of a 490 yd par 5 ( a little down wind thankfully) while watching my partners trying to stab a rescue thing out of the rough following a wayward drive from their titanium melon!
I’m not one for much practise or studying technique but love playing golf in a manner I enjoy and vintage irons and a nice lump of persimmon is definatly fun in my book!

The next challange for the Dynas is the Hotchkin course at Woodhall Spa later this week in a National medal competition. Tiger tees,just over 7000 yds and rain / wind forecast! Tight fairways and hundreds of bunkers means plenty more 1 irons I should think. Only 5 shots to play with now so a tough test but something I hope the Dynas will be well up for!!
Keep the faith and keep the vintage clubs in the bags guys :smiley: :smiley:

76

Great stuff Wholejobs, you really do make me :slight_smile:

77

I played my second round with persimmon last Sunday and I have noticed a few differences. I am shorter with them, I would say about 10%, more if I mishit them. When well struck it can be quite close. I am MUCH straighter. I only missed 2 fairways and those were the last two and I would say that had more to do with being tired than the clubs. I am just getting back to my game after a layoff due to the broken finger so I am just getting back in shape now. And the missed fairways were just off the fairway. I doubt I would lose a ball with these clubs. My last observation is that my swing has been built on the newer gear and that really shows with the persimmon. I have trouble hitting them high enough, I think that I never have to worry about hitting the ball high enough with the titanium clubs, but with the persimmon I have trouble hitting it high enough. Certainly I think it will make me a better player to play the game with the persimmon and learn to hit them well enough.

Lastly, the game is enjoyable, just as much as it is with titanium. I thought I would be uber-frustrated with the persimmon because it made the game harder, but that is not the case. It is a different game, but a good test nonetheless.

78

Well, Toto, looks like we’re not in Kansas anymore… .

Today’s trip to the driving range was perhaps the most embarassing and frustrating day in my entire golfing career.

It was my first trip out testing the persimmon drivers that Mr. Ebay delivered to me: A Power-built Citation, just like the one I had as a kid, a Macgregor Tommy Armour Silver Scot Penna Model 4251, and a 1957 MacGregor Tommy Armour.

The warmup shots were good, I was striping my dyna two iron (thanks again, bentshaft). As I pulled that 4251 and wrapped my fingers 'round that leather grip, thoughts of “oh boy, this is gonna be cool,” filled my head. Man, was I wrong. What’s that line 'bout hubris again?

Holy cow. Epic fail. Nothin’ but topped balls and Hosel fades. And an entirely new ballflight, heretofore unseen, best described as a Baltimore Chop.

It was sickening. I’d switch to my dyna 2, hit 4 out of 5 as sweet as I can hit that club, knock a couple of decent seven irons, switch back to the driver, then proceed to roll one out past the 25 yard marker. And again. And again. I tried teeing the ball up, teeing it down. I tried just the Mod 1 drill swing, no joy.

Out came the Citation. The exact same club I used to hit a drive out of Highlands GC driving range. Not today though. Wow, was that ugly.

Then I remembered on of the first things I’d ever read by lag, a drill where you tee up the ball, then drop to your knees, and take a swing. Maybe that would help dial in the feel.

Nope. Out of 30 swings, I hit the ball once. And that was a glancing skull shot. For all I know, I hit the ball with shaft. It was brutal.

I can’t remember a more frustrating moment in 40 odd years of playin’ sports. My swing was like nothing so much as a helicopter rotor mounted on a busted swash plate: I would swing, then hit the ground three feet behind the ball; reload, swing again, hit 30 inches behind, then 28, then 20 and so on, up to about six inches behind.

I couldn’t make the club not bounce off the ground. Where in blue blazes did this cyclic prang come from?

But todays session did provide valuable feedback; in that what I know and what I think I know are TWO VERY DIFFERENT things.

If any of you haven’t tried this drill for yourself, I wholeheartedly recommend it. Just don’t try it with anyone who might be prone to needle / ride / or otherwise comment adversly on your efforts.

So, it’s back to the drawin’ board, tryin’ to figure this one out.

Regards
Hawg1

BTW, if anyone in ABS land has any ideas / thoughts on why this drill and practice session went so horribley wrong, please, do post.

79

Sorry to hear that Hawg. IMO if you are constantly hitting behind the ball the Pivot is not supporting the hands hit. More Mod 2 work needed.

80

Hawg,

Give it some time. No logical reason that you’re striping a Dyna 2-iron but not hitting a persimmon reasonably well.

I hate to diagnose w/out seeing a swing, but I’ll make some inputs and you can do with them what you like.

A tenet of ABS that I think many struggle with is the idea of moving the shoulders “level” thru and past impact. I think if you have a ball on the ground with a deuce in your hand and you have any concept of “true loft” then you won’t try to help it up in the air. But… put a ball on a tee with a tiny (and probably low lofted persimmon head) and it just seems like we need to start tilting our torso to help get the ball up. Couple that with some good mod 1 work and the club just bottoms out way behind the ball. Try being more level and turning hard low and left post impact and see what happens. I assure you that if you’re used to "tilted"shoulders thru impact then level shoulders will feel like your turning into the ground after impact. You won’t be but it will feel like you are.

There’s enough counter-intuitive thinking with ABS that it can derail some early ball striking attempts. It’s just part of your ABS development and why the drilling becomes more important than beating balls.

robbo