Value peoples thoughts on left arm connection - this still is taken from the youtube footage of Hogan in Mexico (youtube.com/watch?v=nWLLPKiS … ature=fvwp) …seems that his right upper arm is much closer to chest than his left upper arm.
A) It could in part be a feel but I have no doubt there is muscular tension in that pectoral/armpit area that may have felt like contact or did indeed contact when thicker clothing was present
B) The torso can rotate relative to the arm such that as the pivot increases rotational speed that gap closes
C) I think the same generalizations about the R arm are made as well. We hear a lot of talk about the body “supporting the right forearm” through some sort of mechancal lock. We also hear talk about pitch elbow being against the belly or punch elbow against the side of the hip, but is that really the case?
I think you can have the cohesive muscle tension there, and maybe with certain baggy slothing styles it does fill up, but it’s not necessary… at least at this point in the swing.
There has been a bit of discussion about this in another thread viewtopic.php?f=211&t=605&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=640
I believe it has something to do with the shoulders being closed off coming into the ball and the player still knowing to keep the club behind and not do an over the top move. I would think if the arm stayed closer to the side from this view at this point of the swing the club would stray outside in a cutting across motion.
It’s a definite move that the good player does. I don’t believe they necessarily try to achieve it as it is a by product of something else… but I would bet the player is still trying to feel the connection but his instincts make it happen visually a little after the frame(s) that this picture was taken
So while it seems to go against the real or feel thoughts and what players may say…it definitely is real as a result of the correct sequencing.
Hogan is wearing very tight clothes and is a pretty small man. That angle looks like there is little structure to hold everything together, however that is an illusion. You couldn’t budge that left arm.
See my pic…
The opposing forces press my left wrist flat like some pantywaist puss. The hands are a fulcrum, but so is the left shoulder. I cannot begin to tell you how solid that structure feels coming through the ball. Module 3 is about to engage full force to keep the club head from catching the hands (I’m not trying to keep that club head behind my hands. I’m trying to slam that bastard into the 4:30 quadrant of the ball), but now instead of forcing everything toward the 4:30 line on the ball, I’ll be ripping it left! From the pictured position I actually feel like my whole right side is above the shaft…pressuring it down…holding it level to the ground…almost adding weight to the club head. A big sweeping pressured “L” and impact gives the impression of hitting UP on the ball. The most amazing feeling in golf!
I think where the club is at that point, as well as the weight of it, plays a significant role in what he’s doing and how he’s doing it. That arm isn’t just hanging out there will nilly, it’s got significant stresses on it coming from a couple of different directions, that in a lot of ways, makes up it’s mind for it. By properly doing what it needs to do to accelerate the club at that point, the arm does become a part of the body and the legs, because that’s where it finds power. I don’t think becoming a part of the body and legs is the goal in and of itself. As he said himself in 5 lessons, ‘style is function, and function is style’.
I look at that photo and I’m not thinking of connection or the lack of it, I’m thinking about how he’s going about applying force to the club, and through what channels. I would agree with Two’s take that the sequencing and structure of the motion creates the action. If you think of it from a circular perspective, ‘out’ actually becomes ‘in’, or really is ‘in’, depending on where you’re looking at it from. So you could look at his left arm and say that it’s out, but really it’s only because it’s on the way in since it’s essentially circling. That may sound totally insane, but it makes sense. If you don’t go ‘out’, you can’t come ‘in’. If that left arm stays ‘in’ on the way down, then it will fly ‘out’ during acceleration, because it didn’t honour the circle. But the club, as I was saying at the start, is a different matter.
I’ve seen the Mexico films and there is no doubt that a lot of the shots Hogan was hitting there had a more swinger’s release… much more so that any other Hogan footage I have viewed prior to that or after… such as the Shells Match.
I can’t obviously speak for Hogan, but I can speculate he was experimenting with more of an arm throw… dead hand release. People try different things, or he may have been just experimenting with a certain kind of shot for an upcoming event. Those videos are different and a lot of TGM swinging advocates hang their hats on that Mexico footage. One thing is for certain, he didn’t continue using that loose hand-arm release stuff.
IMO: I think the ‘gap’ is just a function of the way the hips move in the Bens swing. The right hip goes back (backwards away from the right foot), then stops and becomes the new pivot point. The left hip then turns left as per 5 lessons. If you watch the clip and just focus on the hips you can see what I mean.
When you try this you are way out of balance… unless you swing the arms out and away from your body like Ben seems to be doing…
Just my thoughts (Its quite hard to do though lol!!)
I’ve already posted my thoughts, I was just stirring the pot hoping to get a good discussion going. I’d like to hear Bulldog’s thoughts since he posted the image so it obviously struck a chord in his mind.
taking the piss? ‘Shall we’?! We find you in a confrontational mood at this hour, no?
The mexico films is interesting footage. His swings there seem to lack that CP element (referring to the colorised footage Lag mentioned), hard to say though what going on with internal pressures but seeing it some time back made me wonder.
just like to mention im not sure we are referring to the same footage, although th one I am referring to seem colorized and the release action looks different. Does anyone have a link to the ones lag is referring to?