This is good stuff guys, looking forward to join the module based learning next month John.
Yes, thanks for the thoughtful replies and giving something to chew on and revisit.
A Module #2 Lightbulb Moment:
Immediately after seeing the Mod#2 Definitions and Terminology for the first time I re-studied Lag’s Mod#1, Shaft Flex Diagram, and Mod#2 drill vids plus videos of his swings (such as the “Face on 4 Barrel Hit” made by Justin Tang) to make visual connections/distinctions about the timing in them with the diagrammed and captioned Mod#2 vert.jpg and horiz.jpg.
I believe it is mostly because of that concentrated re-study I have become better at synchronizing the legs and feet squeeze with the “late” firing of the right hand and trying to replicate that part of Lag’s images and drill videos and other videos of his swing as much as I can in my Mod#2 drills.
That led to this lightbulb moment:
When it is working best, I can feel a harmonious connection with: 1) the grind in the legs in the apex of their triangle, 2) inside my pelvis and low belly, 3) the grind in the “late” firing right wrist/hand, 4) the sound of the “late” whoosh of the clubhead accerating into impact, and 5) the pinch at the left armpit/pectoral. It’s like the feel of a flush sweetspot shot, but in the drill this is like five sweetspots in harmony. Being conscious of this holistic harmonious sensation is entirely new to me in golf but reminds me of the body/mind feeling I had as a boy playing with a homemade bow and arrow, slingshot, running races, hitting baseballs, skipping stones on water, casting a fishing lure, all that play stuff. This harmonious connection is what I’ve been looking for in golf. With surprisingly little practice/rehearsal, it is relatively easy to reproduce from day to day. A good shot to the fairway or green is not less appreciated, but it is only an outcome of this harmony. This might sound absurd, but it feels like time slows down when this harmony exists. It feels like we can use this to help ourselves move into at least some, (if not always entirely), into the “Zone” instead of timidly waiting for the Zone to arbitrarily bless us with it’s random appearance. I mean this with awe and humility; as far as I have seen, it appears that the Zone and arrogance are not compatible in the long run.
Module #2 is terrific as was the essential bedrock of Module #1 that it builds on.
just wanted to post a little about my experiments so far, you probably have all gone through this yourselves but I got a little excited and just wanted to share…
Although I´ll start lags modules next month and obviously haven´t started the excercises connected to them I have been closly thinking upon all the great information that flows through the forums and taking them to my own personal golf driving range…the park next to my house : D. The reason I wanted to
share a little with you is that I took some of the things mentiond here and played with them a little and practicing them.
The frozen right arm sounded very foreign to me and I didn´t think about it much because I came from a handsy TGM hitting protocol and there all I thought about was stretching out the right arm to kind of slap the ball almost with hands only. Well… one night when looking on swings on youtube I had a look on a dtl view on jim furyks swing on swingvision I couldn´t believe how his right arm looked like, bent unbelievably much, I had some kind of ephiphany right there.
I decided to take a few balls and an 8 iron to the park and thought about having a bent right arm, flat swing and rotating around my right leg. Now things werent working very well at all but then again nothing has really been incorporated into my swing DNA from what lag teaches. Short version is that after hitting about 20-30 balls I had one magical shot were I swung incredibly flat, the club was wide wiiiide open in my hand in the backswing(very unnatural and uncomfortable feeling) and then I spun pretty fast around and I decided to hold as HARD as i POSSIBLY could to the club with my right arm bent through the downswing and I happened to hit the purest sweetest straightest 8 iron shot I have ever hit in my life, or any iron shot I ever hit for that matter. This I could reproduce for about 4 more shots and then I was spent, done, muscles exhausted. Not that I couldnt hold hard onto the club, I just couldn´t hold it as hard as i possibly could because relatively unused muscles became quicky tired ,at least that´s what I think happend, may as well have been some mechanical error that suddenly crept in.
I remember swinging my driver like this once some time ago on the driving range when I was trying different things and experimenting, very flat swing, all pivot and holding exremely hard on the club and the ball was murdered. I tried to do it again after that but just could´t do it. Im shocked at the effort required to hit this way but I absolutely love it!!! Well, love it if this is the right feeling to have… can anyone tell me, is this the right feeling through the downswing, especially the later stages, a massive effort to hold the club in ones hands with the right arm bent or is the right technique more effortless?
Regards
Jon
IceJay,
Hard to answer your question directly. It sounds like it may be based partly on an increase in core rotational speed, maybe without stalling, all the way through impact and into the finish.
Your feeling could be based on a mixture of things but a large part of that “feeling” probably stems from resisting the outward pull of Centrifugal Force. The further away your arms drift out away from your body (center) while trying to keep a bent right arm, the more magnified the pulling sensation will feel.
You didn’t mention how far the arms were away from your body but if you look at any Hogan video or pics at and right after impact, you will notice how close that right arm is to the body.
[attachment=1]hogansequence-frame6.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]hogansequence-frame7.jpg[/attachment]
Icejay,
Great stuff…it is supposed to be hard work! Wait until you get to module 3 and what seems like a straightforward drill just kills you.
Rerouting the natural direction of the immense CF forces requires some serious post impact pivot action.
You may have glimpsed the future there with those few shots…keep it up!
Thanks for your comments aguille, baggerswing
After getting the swing plane flatter and rotating more with the pivot it would be accurate to say that the only thing I was thinking about after hitting the first couple of balls was keeping the right arm as close as I possibly could while I spun the club very fast and very flat around the body but I have no idea what exactly I was doing in my footwork or in the post imapct pivot. Hogan certainly keeps them extremely close as seen on your picture. If you guys are not feeling this massive effort/strain in your right arm I´m guessing whatever Im doing may well be wrong in some way or another but only time will tell. Lags modules will certainly clear things up and in any case, going from a hands only hitting to a pivot driven flat swing is certainly more powerful and alot more accurate judging from the shots I´m already making when I luckily combine some of the things I have been learning here on the forums.
Regards
Jon.
You may wish to start wearing a cup! 
Actually, I cannot wait to start. Should be early next week at the latest. Gotta go get some carpet scraps!
Cheers,
Capt. Chaos
Cap,
If it would increase feel, I probably would. 
I made some notes after several weeks of practice and this is what I have distilled my latest feelings to…
The object of the game is to sustain lagpressure to the shaft of the golfclub.
Lagpressure is exerted on the shaft via two levers.
The first of these levers is the form 3 lever, the fulcrum being the wrists.
The second lever is a form 1 lever, the fulcrum being both shoulder sockets.
The pressure exerted on the form 3 lever is a flat and around rotational type of action from deep on the 430 line at P3, the pressure on the form 1 lever causes a steepening of the shaft from P4. The hands fire the first rocket, the torso drives the second rocket.
The baton is passed from one lever to the next just beyond impact.
Everything really starts from P3 but I believe that the object of the backswing and then transition is to arrive loaded, flat and laid off deep into the 430 line. I have the sensation now of having a lot of pressure in my hands at P3, the pressure is headed downwards but then redirected by the wrists into the ball and beyond, meanwhile the pivot plays a master role in sustaining lagpressure through to PV5.
Hi Aiguille
Good observations; however I understand Lag’s take on the levers a little differently. Yes the F-1 lever is mainly responsible for club travel upto impact but with the left arm tight against the torso its range of motion is done and then the F-3 takes over (Lag’s anology of door hinging into the jamb and then the whole wall moves). So I believe F-3 is responsible for a lot of ball speed. From P-4 onward while the upper torso is still moving the F-2 lever (right arm straigtening) contributes in a big way to rip the club into PV5. My $0.002 anyway.
[attachment=1]postimpactform1lever.jpg[/attachment]
If we consider the accumulation of all the interior body parts as the pivot motor… then it most certainly is applying force into BOTH shoulder sockets… which move the arms, hands, and club. This motor continues to work aggressively post impact as long as it can, pressuring into the fulcrums, and ideally keeping the torso moving quicker than that arms as long as possible… or into what we call PV5.
[attachment=0]f1lever.jpg[/attachment]
This form one lever is also responsible for initiating the transition, but in a much more passive way.
Similar to pressing a clutch, the pivot slows and allows the form 3 lever to do it’s part… (wrists uncocking and rotating)
then the second stage of the pivot form 1 lever acts as a second stage rocket firing…
This is what we learn here at ABS.
Lag,
Thanks for that very clear explanation, love the diagrams and colours!
On another topic altogether, it is noticeable how steep the club is in your hands quite late into the downswing…I can see how this would really max out the form 3 lever into impact, can you expand on that?
I got a chance to see Lag hit a two iron of the deck today in person. It was a thing of beauty, a high boring shot, with a slight draw. Amazing to see Lag’s swing up close in person. He took only one swing and it was money. Lag is the real deal.
I just started module 1 two weeks ago. I do not presume to think I know what I am doing, but I will share my thoughts and feelings as it may strike a familiar note with someone else.I did not see the “Supplement to Module 1” until after I had made my first video…and what a joke I was. I thought I was doing real well, but I had made all the mistakes. I was starting with my left arm towards the right leg, I had extreme shaft lean from driving the right elbow and passive hands. It was an eye-opener, but thank goodness for a sense of humor…made me laugh.
I got to work on the suggestions Lag made and watched the Supplement to Module 1. Here is what I am doing/feeling: Bowing to the 4:30 line helps me see and feel the path,moving the handle towards the ball to start and simply rotate & uncock the left hand towards the bag while straightening the left knee to pivot. I try to keep the arm still, or even feel it get closer to the body…almost like it is going backwards. I like to feel like the back of the left hand is hitting the bag. When using the right hand I try to keep the elbow on the body , and bang the bag with the hand.
My left forearm muscles get to burning really fast, before 20 reps.
I have to think about what I am doing…it is not natural or automatic. My body does not want to stay still. I figure that’s what the 300 reps are for, as well as strengthening.
Lightbulb moments so far: 1 It is nice to be in touch with people who are so accomplished at this game and have done a LOT of thinking about what works,and willing to share the knowledge. 2 Knowledge/reading isn’t enough…you need the right drills to learn/memorize the feeling. 3 4:30 line, see it , and bow to it, and use it…nice to finally know it is there and I need to be there. 4 We hit with the hands, not the right elbow. “Oh, that’s how it is supposed to feel!”(previously,trying to hit with the right elbow contributed to a severe case of golfer’s elbow) I really like this program, went to the range today,pretended to hit the bag and hit plenty of good shots. Even with a 3 iron. Hit a few drivers to the right however, my diagnosis is I am not active enough with my hands. This is a slightly spooky feeling…wondering if it is real? Will it hold up? Will it get even better?
eagle
My hands held the light bulb today. I have been doing the 1 and 2 and just starting 3. Have had a deadline hanging over me for a while, so I have been doing mostly drills and very little ball striking. Deadline now dead, so I got to hit balls and play some today. Just tried to let the drills wash over me, or as Lag says - seep into my golf DNA.
I’ve always had a pretty good set of hands. Could throw a curve by the age of ten, had a good jump shot, learned to juggle on the first try, as a kid boxing was known for quick hands, even flying a helicopter was a handsy job. In golf, though, all I ever heard was handsy was bad. It was squashed into a four letter word. Even when I read a little TGM all I got was the dead hands swinger approach. Even their hitter version - straighten right arm, just uses the hand as a clamp.
Then, let’s have those hands clap, came Lag. He said it was alright to use your hands with a lot of authority, and showed us exactly how, when, and where to use them. So, today when 4:30 was on my side, when the legs did their part, when the hands played in sync, I got to use them. Man - did they do their job. Being fully involved suited them very well. All the taping they have had to endure does not bother them a bit. They are very happy to be a real part of the process.
I know I still have a lot of bag to beat, carpet to bubble and pivot to finish, but my allowed to fire hands are on a ride they really get to enjoy. May the flush be with us.
Flop
Flopshot,
I think you have picked up on a very important aspect of Lag’s methodology…the very first module is all about exactly how those hands fire and where they fire from. There is nothing passive from P3.
‘All hell lets loose’ to quote Lag. So whats the reason? So you can hit the ball really hard?
No!
Its so you can set up the maelstrom of opposing forces to create and sustain lagpressure. The ball is incidental.
Well, I was having a look around the site under physics and I came across this statement:
[b]"The important thing to understand, is that the compression of a golf ball is both dependent upon pre and post impact clubhead speeds. In other words, the less the clubhead slows down due to the forces of the impact collision, the more the ball is compressed.
The more we compress the ball, the longer it stays on the clubface. We learn to play golf by feeling impact, so this compression is very important to us as golfers.Our feel is enhanced, and our ability to maneuver the golf ball becomes more empowering to us as we learn to increase our feel and ball compression.[/b]"
In 2 and a half years I’ve been trying to play and learn this great sport I actually never thought about this before; about what happens to the ball not just at impact but right after, that it still gets compressed if we help it to be. I always thought the goal was to get the club head to impact the ball correctly and that was it.
Great stuff!
[b]The dim bulb shines a bit brighter!!
I have been here with Lag from almost the beginning (I think) but injuries have kept me away until recently…
It hasn’t stopped me from buying old clubs though—Having tons of fun with that for relatively little money. Check out the equipment section…
Anyway—
I just started back on the bag for module 1 recently…
tried to take it to the range…
seems to me that an attempt at the 4 30 line automatically gets you into a flatter swing position
it sure is hard to get back to 4 30 if you have an upright swing (for me )
I 'm actually FEELING a swing plane from time to time without thinking about it…
But the real lightbulb went off when I was swinging one of my new purchases. It is a Hogan “sure-out” sand wedge
and we are talking heavy…478 grams dead weight with a swing weight at E 1
GO GET A HEAVY CLUB!!!
You can feel so much more… you will find it very hard to over accelerate from the top with these things…Make a full turn, let this sucker drop and THEN accelerate thru the ball (P5 I think) its a HUGE lightbulb moment.
I contacted Lag about this—wanted to make sure I wasnt crazy or just having a good ball striking day—he says—[/b]
BIngo Bingo Bingo!!!
hard to over accelerate something heavy…
nice lightbulb moment today…
more feel, and transition…
The 4:30 line should encourage a flatter swing like all the great ball strikers used (hitters)
good stuff
Lag
Hopefully, I will be posting more often, but so far,so good!
Well, I went out and hit balls this past Sunday for the first time since starting the Mod 1 drills over 5 weeks ago. I also wanted to film myself with my new camera and we had a rare sunny 70 degree autumn day in Pennsylvania that I wanted to enjoy before winter sets in.
My first impressions were how strong or golf ready I felt after not playing or hitting balls in over 6 weeks. So the bag must be strengthening my golf muscles. It literally felt like the middle of golf season to me with no slack-off. In past years, I usually put the clubs away after the middle of September. So I see this being a big advantage also - the off-season golf workout!
I was trying not to do the drills when hitting balls, but just see what would seep into my golf DNA as Lag has said.
Initially, I was taking some deep divots and felt like I was hitting a bit behind the ball (this was my original DNA still rearing its ugly head I believe!)… I then adjusted my posture on the downswing thinking about the 4:30 line and I began striking the ball solidly, maintaining my posture and keeping my head behind the ball at impact. I then began hitting really nice straight shots past the 150 flag with my Mizuno MP-32 7 iron. I did not expect this. And I didn’t feel like I was really swinging hard or getting out of balance. This swing also took me up into a nice fully rotated balanced finish. At one point, I did think about waiting until P3 and then going after it… and when I did I really crushed it. Later, when I went to pick up the balls, I was surprised to see several were directly over the 150 flag (meaning straight!) and nearly 170 yards. And these were hit into an uphill, soggy ground so I know they didn’t roll much! Needless to say, I am very happy…
My only concern, and I’m not sure if it should be one yet, is that I didn’t hit the big draws or hooks others have experienced.