Regarding Hogan arms bound in tightly, I wish to ask Lag whether this would destroy the flying wedges (as discussed in TGM)?
No, it would only help the preservation of TGM flying wedges.
Again, TGM is observation based. The key is to create the angles through PRESSURE, and active FORCES.
A frozen right arm resisting the outward throw of CF from P3 to P4 is the best way to preserve the structure of the arms…and the flying wedge you talk about.
BUT!!!
[attachment=0]gk2.jpg[/attachment]
This must be DRIVEN by the rotation of the torso. Few in any did it better than George Knudson. Notice here how his arms are in the same preserved structure from impact over towards P4. This can only happen by a great post impact pivot acceleration.
Notice how much his torso has rotated from impact to the next frame. The torso is accelerating post impact. The hands fired into impact, so they are spent, and now the second stage of the rocket blasts off (pivot). By the upper arms staying packed on the body, the club cuts left. This is actually on plane as those on module #4 now understand. Also notice the solid platform George has created with his lower body. Rock solid. He does this by properly applying fantastic ground pressures, both vertical and horizontal. This rooting into the ground is what is enabling him to have such a wicked torso thrust.
By keeping the right arm bent longer post impact, this inhibits the clubface from closing quickly, or shutting down. THIS KEEPS TIMING OUT OF THE GOLF SWING…
If you love grinding thousands of golf balls to chase the feeling of timing in the golf swing, you are making this game much more difficult than it need be. Hit balls for enjoyment, not for necessity.
Some new insights…
Starting with the form 1 lever…Lag has posted about this in the module 1 section under a thread called Advice for TGM converts in the private student area, its a great insight into the mechanical aspect of his methodology and well worth a read. For me, it rather simplifies the whole confusing aspect of the importance of the left armpit.
The other recent post that caught my eye was the one about Ian Woosnam’s swing and how long he was for such a small guy…because he takes full advantage of the rotational aspect of the pivot with a flat and full rotation of his wide shoulders…its got me seeking a more erect spine, more knee flex and the idea of ‘saving’ as much shoulder turn for the post impact pivot as possible.
Funny, Lag suggested a more erect set up with increased knee flex to me last week and the difference (feel-wise and results-wise) was night and day. A major lightbulb for me.
Hi CheeseDonkey,
I recognise the importance of saving as much as possible for the post impact thrust, saving right arm and saving as much shoulder turn/pivot and conversely on the other side, prior to p3 I am working on getting as flat and around as possible to maximise module 1 action.
I am trying to think about ‘pre p3’ rather than “backswing”!
The backswing is a very misunderstood concept… particularly swing plane… we really don’t need it to feel like a two step process.
I finally understand pivot lag! Its the sensation of increased pressuring into the left armpit from the top of the backswing…I now feel that I have to engage this gear before pressing on the accelerator. It seems to delay the hit impulse until much much later, literally a few inches before impact and the club feels heavy post impact too.
The heavy post impact feel (without taking a huge divot) is a good sign that compression is increasing.
The deeper the compression, the deeper into P4 we will feel the vibration of the shaft.
This is an excerpt of a conversation with Lag which I think may be helpful for my fellow students…
[b]make a big turn.
then close that gap between the left arm on the downswing… real pivot lag
the torso turns but the arms stay back
then load into the arms…
pivot lag, right up from the feet
the pressure builds…
on the way down
the gap closes on the way down
from the feet…
right up through the body then loading into the arms last…
maximum rotation… minimal hand travel…
leaves a gap that is closed on the downswing…
the gap between the upper left arm and the body…
just work on the shoulders rotating… hands not travelling
preserve that pressure
don’t spend it… that will be key
feel you are going to spend it post impact…
[/b]
2 Likes
aiguille,
Thanks for sharing the conversation with Lag it shows how important the pivot is most people just swings arms without buiding pressure saving no pressure into impact.If yon can share your insight on min hand travel it woud be greatly appreciated on your drills and thought process i believe its the killer in most swings where the hands start crashing immediately down releasing all shaft pressure.
Sixpackkid,
Glad you found it helpful…after that conversation and some practice on Saturday, I went out and hit 8 greens in regulation on the front 9…Lag’s course requires dedication and hard work, like anything worth doing well but the results will come. This particular advice is very relevant for me as I have played golf for the last 15 years with almost no pivot lag and just a flail of the arms. I now regard pivot lag as the rocket fuel of the golf swing and my winter objective will be to ingrain this into my swing.
Hmmmm…that could certainly be a big problem in my swing. I try to maintain pressure between the upper left arm and the torso the whole swing (backswing included). There is no gap to fill with stationary arms and a turning torso on the through swing.
Captain Chaos,
Great name by the way!
Try to feel that the arms don’t move at all but the torso makes a big turn back, this is the right at the heart of my biggest problem which is not ‘loading’ enough. This pivot driven force/pressure then drives the whole choreography from p3 to pv5, in essence the throughswing. Its like the fuel of the golf swing, feeding opposing forces before and after impact. I really hope you get this because it has been a real door opener for me.
Thanks Aiguille,
Well that’d explain a lot. I’ve fought being an arm swinger all my golfing days and also don’t turn enough in the backswing. These will be very foreign feelings. I’m saving up the cash to start the advanced ball striking program with lag. Fortunately, I’m a bit of a chameleon and take instruction very well. The winter months will be filled with the sound of my grandfather’s old WWII army duffle bag getting the sh!t beat out of it. 
Cheers.
I’m struggling with my sequencing and this idea of pivot lag in my head. On one hand you seem to be saying that we should load the left armpit from the top (or even before the top from the ground up). But then there is the notion Lag shows in M1 and M2 of how the hands fire from P3 and at around impact and the torso picks up speed to pick up the left arm to keep driving through to have the all-important post impact thrust intention.
Is the sequence that there is a passive drop into the slot (which I am having a heck of time accomplishing), with pivot lag bringing the hands down into position, then the firing happens with the pivot in neutral, then the pivot firing suddenly picks up again to outrace the hands around the corner? I admittedly have not gone back and searched the site as I’m sure that Lag has discussed this (I’m a bit short on time at the moment) – just have my brain a little twisted at the moment…
Cheese,
It’s seems to be our human nature to initiate the hit prematurely. This is why I grind you guys so hard on Module #1, #2, and #3.
When we really get into sequencing things correctly, YOU WILL have the strength and coordination to do what you need to do when you hold off on the hit.
You are now in a position to make it work… where as before, if I told you to hit later, you simply would not have the ammo or horse power to do it…
There seems to be a delay between when we perceive our active hit or trigger pull, and when it actually happens.
If I try to hit at the ball, I actually will hit closer to P3. If I feel I start to hit post impact, I actually start the hit at about the right time… prior to impact, more like P3.5. It can almost be 90 degrees of difference.
If you feel your hands striking into P4, you might find some good results… because you have been trained to fire at the right time in M#1… Strangely because the ball is there… the brain does something different. I have seen your practice swings and they are much better than when a ball is suddenly placed in front of you.
If you feel you disconnect M#1 completely, meaning “the hit” there, and move it forward in the swing… I can assure you “the hit” will still be there.
Mess around with it a bit…
Cheese,
The best way I can describe it is like this…
Lag has deconstructed the moves or chords from P3 to P5 in the first 4 modules, our hands and pivot know where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to be doing at each point in that arc.
Lag mentions loading into the left armpit very early on in module 1…and remember all those corrections where he gets us to make sure the gap between the torso and the left armpit is closed at impact. He recently taught me to think of the left arm like a spoke in a wheel and then of course the left shoulder/ torso becomes the hub.
On the downswing, the gap between the torso and the left arm closes and an increasing amount of pressure is imparted on the left armpit which then imparts the force to the club itself…it feels like the left armpit becomes the conductor of the swing/orchestra. It also feels like the at the moment of impact, the club is very long, like it extends all the way up to the left armpit.
The general feeling is one of being very connected and that all the energy/ acceleration is channeled to the left armpit. I actually don’t think about hitting the ball anymore, as Lag says the hit impulse is there and it will happen, the later the better. It stands to reason that in order to impart pressure to the left armpit, the more you turn, the better that you can impart pressure on the way down and through beyond impact.
I don’t think too much about the two stage rocket firing of the pivot now, in fact, I feel a steady and even acceleration of pressure into the left armpit into impact and beyond. I checked this out with Lag and he thinks that I may have got to the stage where my hands may feel passive even though they are actually firing (as Knudson describes in his book).
These are my thoughts at present, a bit complex but the last couple of weeks has seen a real change in quality and consistency since taking all of this on board, hope they are helpful and of course I would welcome any observations/ critiques from my fellow students.
Hi Aiguille,
I think I recognise some of the feelings you relate. In this context I found the section in Lags mod #1 supplemementary video on presetting my axis tilt at address and then moving the hands/club back to the ball very useful. When I swing I try and maintain this same feeling with the hands staying as close as they can to the ball as I turn on the backswing. As someone who has always struggled to minimise the role of the arms of in the backswing this is a useful feel for me in trying to minimise hand travel. It actually feels to me, when I do this well, like my hands are staying in the same place or even going in the opposite direction just as they do when I move move my hands back to the ball at address after presetting axis tilt 
. It probably better described as the hands moving at a slower rate in terms of revs than the torso on the backswing, as of course they are moving away from the ball, but it is the feeling that is important to me.
The better I seem to do this the better I seem to hit it (and I am not doing it consistently by any means yet) and like you I am not particularly conscious of the active hit. I think do think there is a possibility that I may be mistaking float loading on the way down with genuine pivot lag so I will have to keep my eye on that.
Much work to be done and fun to be had over the winter 
Cheers, Arnie
Arnie,
Check out Justin Tang’s post on Dunaway in the module 1 section…there’s gold in them there hills…you can release as hard as you like (module 1) as long as you have the minerals ( module 3, post impact pivot ) to outrace the hand release post impact…so an angled hinge can be retained!
Mike Austin teaches the release, he doesn’t teach how important the post impact pivot is…thats where Lag’s teaching differs massively from every other instructor.
Aiguille, Arnie
wonderful posts… you are both onto some good things…