Is this module #1?

Public Forum—Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking
21

I completely agree, and this again, has nothing to do with respect, but when an instructor promotes this publicly, and it comes under my radar as being compared to ABS methodology… then YES this will be debated. and YES this will be addressed, and YES, it will ruffle some TGM feathers.

However…

I, BPGS1, or any others who understand reality, would be doing no one any favors here… by sweeping this under the carpet, and walking around on egg shells because no one is supposed to disagree with the very heart beat of Yoda’s teachings.

I DISAGREE WITH YODA!!!

Does that mean I am being disrespectful?

22

Again I never read TGM so I ask is that what TGM Hitting Protocol is supposed to be? Asisde from everything else that seems like it would put awful stresses on your back and just about every joint in the body. Way unnatural, I saw some players making that motion when I was in college with the prerequisite superstrong left hand grip. They made it work ok with the longer clubs but the short clubs were always bullets that went way too far and low. 155 yard low wedges back when that meant something. The guys with good hands got it to spin enough to play it but that still doesn’t make it good IMO.

23

Why not groove both…more arrows in the quiver so says Geronimo.

Hmmm…LAG versus YODA…a pay per view event? RR :sunglasses:

24

One thing that I do agree with Yoda about:

Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.
– Yoda

Captain Chaos

25

but who is comparing it ABS methodology?

Certainly nobody at LBG!

The original post compared what was being done with ABS Module 1.

This was an incorrect assumption on the part of the student who asked the question, it could have been handled privately, instead Lynn Blake was chastised publicly for incorrectly doing an action that he wasn’t even demonstrating!

As you correctly point out, Lynn puts his clips up on youtube and they are there for public consumption and criticism. However, I don’t see any of that happening, certainly it wasn’t the point of the original post.

By all means there could be a section in the forum that discusses and critiques Lynn’s and everyone elses youtube videos but IMO the original post was a cheap shot that I would hope we would be above.

If not I am beginning to believe I am in the wrong place.

26

Come on Styles; This is all that was there in the original post. If the aim is to promote great ball striking you should have produced evidence that some great ball strikers do it this way. I dont believe in sacred cows. And yes we alll know that is the crux of LBG’s teaching.

27

Styles,

ABS concepts are constantly being scrutinized by TGMers …

I have been banned from iseek, it’s been tossed around and torn apart on LB’s site.

The name of Lynn’s youtube video is in fact:

Lynn Working With An Impact Bag

I get emails from TGM students daily who ask me… how is your methodology different from TGM? or
I’ve worked with Blake, or any number of authorized instructors…

Styles, for heaven’s sake, YOUR instructor is one of my students! who self admittedly was averaging about 8 greens a round a year ago… using the exact methodology Blake teaches with TGM diploma in hand, and now he is often hitting 16 greens a round. Believe me, he is happy with his improvement… just ask him.

ABS module #1 is not something I invented… it is simply how to release the golf club actively with very tight protocols for doing so. It’s been going on for a long time. We are talking about universal concepts.

Lynn Blake IS demonstrating how to release the golf club is he not? and like I said, the majority of ABS students who start working on module #1 send videos of them doing EXACTLY that… probably because they have been following Lynn’s advice for all I know.

This is a public forum, to debate the golf swing, theory, instruction in a respectful, yet open way.

Have I been disrespectful to Lynn because I disagree with what he is putting out for public view?

Styles, it’s happening, just as it did on iseek, I am being critical of some of the popular TGM teaching methods, and I will continue to do so when the topic arises. And YES it was the point of my original post. To show anyone who is bouncing back and forth from LB’s site and ABS (and there are more than a few) that there is a huge difference between ideologies. And I did NOT just post a pic without an explanation of what is more than suspect about disconnecting the arms from the body at the most critical point in the swing, and driving the club off plane to boot.

If you or anyone would like to post a thread on Lynn’s teachings and videos here, feel free. I’d be more than happy to chime in on my thoughts about them. And NO I am not above being critical of Lynn Blake or anyone else if I see them posting stuff on youtube regarding
TGM and especially if someone like LB claims that is how Hogan released the golf club. That is not what Hogan did…

These forums here will continue to be open for discussion about the golf swing.

28

I agree with Lag that this is not about dis-respecting Lynn or any other teacher. We just disagree with the concept of dis-connecting the arms during Release. It may well be the case that Lynn also believes in arm to torso connection during Release, but in the video is purposely exaggerating the flat left wrist action as a way of emphasizing the point. I have no problem with that, we do Exaggeration Drills here at Balance Point all the time. But - he may also believe that this severe arm dis-connection and extreme flat left wrist post-impact is NOT an exaggeration and is fundamentally correct motion. Again - if that is the case, no one here is dissing Lynn, from everything I have seen and heard he is a widely respected teacher with a lot of great information about the swing and the game of golf, and he is clearly helping his students to improve.

But we have to be free to respectfully disagree about the really important elements of the golf swing in order to be respectful to our own truth. I for one will never consent to “agreeing to disagree” in a kind of golf teaching detente on this particular issue, ithat kind of detente would be watering down my own understanding of the objective truth about this issue - although I am certainly willing to do so over some other controversial swing issues - because arm to chest connection is something that most of my students would consider to be THE KEY principle of the Balance Point swing model. I am even writing a book about it called “The Arm Swing Illusion - Golf’s Missing Link”. So - I will strongly criticize, but with respect always, any teacher who is teaching that kind of arm dis-connection. And most are teaching that move, because the unquestioned assumption behind golf swing instruction for over 600 years has been that the golf swing is in fact a “swinging” motion that occurs at the upper arm to shoulder girdle joint. That concept was clearly present in Homer Kelley’s understanding of the golf swing as well. Once you can see through the Arm Swing Illusion and really visualize a good golf swing in 3D, a LOT - if not all - of the “mystery” of the golf swing is dispelled. And most of the centuries-old conflicts over swing theory is dispelled as well.

29

I am sorry…that is a little off the mark to say Hogan gets to that position as LB states in that youtube video… Hogan does nothing like that move as shown by the photos below… I will throw in Jones, Sanders, Snead and Trevino for good measure… all of them no slouch at hitting a golf ball… all of them looking as far away from that position as humanly possible
impacts.JPG

30

We can also look at Lema, Miller, Nicklaus, Norman, Thomson, Middlecoff, and throw in Sergio and Nick price from a more recent era… ?? no flat wrist shaft lean left arm off the body stuff in any of these fine actions
impacts2.JPG

31

Styles, the difference between ABS and LB’s TGM is extremely important. It’s critical that any student of this program understands this point.

Also, on LB’s site, Yoda himself wrote a comment in one thread criticising Lag’s beliefs basically saying that Lag had it all wrong and didn’t understand. That was his right to say that, but Lag himself was not there to debate it. So you could, if you wish, criticise LB for that.

The fact of the matter is that neither are at fault for clarifying to their students what their program is all about. I really don’t see what the problem is in comparing to other reknowned instructors on the net. I’ve seen some really disrespectful stuff written by golf instructors about other instructors, and I think you’ll find that neither LB nor Lag are that way inclined.

32

Lag,

Totally understood. And I have to admit that I was guilty of much of the same disconnection at the left side in my initial mod 1 videos.

Carry on! :slight_smile:
robbo

33

I think the worst part of this is that if Lynn and John were in a room together they would have the most fantastic discussion regarding the golf swing and there would be mutual learning on both sides.

With regards to your swing being pulled about on LBG John, I think you know that it was Daryl who was doing the most talking. Yoda’s only contribution to the thread was to discuss cameras!

I’d like you to post a link to where Yoda did criticise John,Teddy because I have never seen it and I frequent there quite often. I would be very disappointed that Yoda would do so without contacting John first because I do think there are LBG members who are entrenched in their opinion (just as there are some here!) and I don’t see how anyone can criticise anyone else’s method/beliefs without studying them first.

34

I am not a member of LB’s site, I don’t visit it, although I did see a link Justin sent me as he was curious about how the LBG guys would view a photo sequence of my golf swing, taken by Justin when we played Mare together.

Justin was impressed enough with my action to post my swing for review over there. Why? probably because I hit 16 greens at Mare which is not easy to do, and if the greens were perfect and I make all my putts inside 15 feet I shoot 61, instead of 70. I was also hitting persimmon and blades.

Am I really doing things incorrectly?
Really?

The response over there was nothing short of a blood bath.

Next question… do you want to learn to flush it? or do you want Lynn’s approval of what he thinks a good golf swing should look like?

I agree, that the TGM swings can look very pretty… if that’s your main concern to have the approval of the popular TGM clan… fine.

But there are good reasons why many TGM disciples including several authorized instructors have defected and come over here for clarity.

They are learning, they are striking the ball better than ever, and their scores are dropping. And there are very good reasons why this is happening.

35

Styles,

Trust me, I won’t likely ever have a golf swing conversation with Lynn Blake. I am sure he is a nice man, but no, we would not be having a good time discussing the golf swing.

I have seen a couple of his videos, and based upon what I have seen, there would be little common ground, either on TGM or Hoganomics.

If Lynn wants to go Salmon fishing with me up the coast, and we keep the conversation to whether or not Georgia Brunswick stew served in a San Francisco Fisherman’s wharf sourdough bread bowl would be a good idea, then I would love to meet him.

36

Never fear Range Rat is here with the solution:

Lag and Yoda to play 18 holes each truly using the other’s method for all 18 holes- the proof will be in the pudding. :slight_smile:

37

Lynn can say whatever he wants about me or ABS that’s fine… I can easily silence the critics with a round of golf.

As far as being critical of a method… I grew up as a top shelf TGM prodigy, so I have a pretty good idea what they are teaching over there…
therefore, I will take issue that I have no right to be critical of TGM.

38

Q1. 16 greens is pretty bloody good - you can’t argue with that.
Q2. Flush, Flush, Flush, Flush, Flush, Flush, Flush, Flush, Flush.

Thank you.
Anthgolf

39

Screw that! Lag you hold Yoda and I’ll give him a right cross swinging my fist in a disconnected manner vs. planting one using proper horizontal and vertical pressures keeping my closed hand close to my body until extending into delivery with controlled pivot. :wink: Yoda may be a Jedi Master and good with a light saber, but I don’t see his methodology holding a candle to yours.

In all seriousness, Styles…check out the Module #1 videos. That “disconnection” is one of the items covered in that video for a reason…students needed to be mindful that we don’t fall into that trap here at ABS.

Captain Chaos

40

Maybe I’m missing something. But I don’t recall Lynn or his instructors having issue with John and his swing or swing thoughts. I don’t read every thread, so I could be wrong.

I do remember ‘Daryl’ ripping into John and creating a ‘bloodbath’, but he’s just an amateur last I knew. And IIRC, he was a problem on this board. And it’s a recurring theme with him as I’ve spoked to 6 different people who have had a major issue with his behavior there and you can add me to the list.

I’d just hate to see the sentiments on both side get ugly because of one guy who is not really affiliate with LBG and doesn’t represent the opinions of LBG. I don’t represent their sentiments either and I don’t agree with quite a few things in the book. But from knowing Lynn and having read this forum, I think both would enjoy discussing their thoughts on the book and TGM.

3JACK