How to Shoot 65

Thanks again for the kind words they are very much appreciated. On that SW yup I was lucky enough to find a brand new one that had never hit a ball for 24.99. I like it a lot and I want to keep it in the bag for a long time. I have become way to dependent on the 60° wedge & I want to learn how to hit all the shots again with the Equalizer and a regular sand wedge.

Ive been watching a lot of the ESPN junk on the NFL Draft especially and it’s not just golf that has gone in such a different direction, all sports have to a very dangerous degree. What I’d like to try to convey here is that whether your looking at top college or professional athletes today you see this huge exhibition where everyone seems to wrap up their entire self-image in their athletic ability and I at least wonder what would happen if they failed or lost their ability to play at all… And more importantly where is the desire to grow through loss? Anyone who wants to be very good at anything like athletics has to be willing to.fail and fall flat on their face in order to grow and ultimately fulfill their potential. The new media and a world of instantaneous exposure and endless critique by the masses who have never and would never put themselves in such a position either through lack of talent or motivation to work that hard is different to say the least. But at the end of the day what’s the real motivation these days to become really good at a sport like golf?

I know this is a little touchy feely and esoteric but that’s ok. It’s important if you take up something seriously with the intention of mastering it that you know what your true motivations are and everyones are different. I’ll start with my own when I decided I wanted to become a player.

I took up the game pretty seriously between my freshman and sophomore year in high school. By my senior year I was playing no 2 on my HS Team and on a good day I could shoot in the mid 70s in competition but I still wasn’t close to good enough to try to walk on to a big time college team. That had never ever been a thought in the back of my mind though because I had already received Appointment to the US Naval Academy. All the men in my family served in the military and I was the first to receive appointment to one of the major academies, in fact at the time my great uncle was still a USAF LT Colonel stationed at the Pentagon. This was a very big deal. But then a little something happened a couple days after I received my final letter of acceptance… Iraq invaded Kuwait. That changed things. I drafted a letter to Annapolis & to Rep. John Doolittle, Jr, my congressman and respectfully declined my appointment. (Remember though this was 1991 & not 2001, had this been after 9/11 I would have ditched the academy and enlisted in the Marines) So after the smoke cleared so to speak I was left with nowhere to go to college and no clue what I wanted to do with my life. The only thing I’d ever done to that point that I’d felt any real connection to or ownership of was golf.

I enrolled at the local community college and spent a little over a year tearing my game apart and putting it back together getting ready to try to walk on to a college golf team. I knew my game wasn’t all that great but my academics were and it ended up helping quite a bit. In the fall of '92 I tried out for 5 Division 1 schools and 3 Division 2, I got 2 offers neither guaranteed past the following spring. I accepted Santa Clara and turned down CSU Dominguez Hills and off I went. I enrolled in the School of Business and almost flunked out my 1st semester the load was so huge

At the core of all of this I ate drank & slept golf. I wanted nothing more than to be a player. I got good enough to qualify for Challenge Tour status at Q school for the Euro Tour in '96 and off I went. At the end of the day I don’t think that anything short of my wife & sons has ever given me more than golf has. No matter how long I walk away from the game I always come back & it will always be part of who I am.

There’s my story, who’s next?

Thanks for sharing Alec,
My dad introduced me to the game when I was about 8 or 9 (1978 or so). I was pretty much self taught save for a few formal lessons from a local driving range pro. Best round was 81 when I was 12 years old. I played the number one spot on my middle school golf team pretty much for two years straight. When I was 14, unfortunately my parents split up, and life was a bit chaotic for several years. During those years my interest in golf waned quickly and severely. The High School I ended up going to didn’t have a Golf Team, and I couldn’t really find a reason to stay interested with all that was going on around me. The corker for me was when one of my playing partners was killed in a car accident on the way back from a college golf tournament in 1991…put the '68 Staff’s up for good that year. It was a bitter sweet goodbye to the game, as I REALLY loved playing Golf.
During the 19 years I was away from the game, many many times I would say to myself “maybe you should start playing golf again”…just never did. About a year ago, a very sudden, very severe onset of golf obsession took hold, and I started playing again. Oddly enough, I came back to the game just as my son was old enough to understand what was going on. He actually started playing with some plastic clubs when he was 2 1/2 years old, and is now just obsessed with the game…plays CONSTANTLY at 3 years 4 months old. It’s weird but I feel like there is a little divine providence in my return to the game, perhaps to pass what gave me so much enjoyment as a young man on to him. Like Alec, it will always be a part of who I am, I just didn’t realize how much a part of me it was even when I wasn’t playing.

And THANK GOD for Lag, ABS and all you guys, it was really refreshing to discover that I wasn’t the only one who thinks the modern game is a bit of a well polished pile of doo-doo.

Andy

What were you using as the bases for “tearing my game apart and putting it back together”? What were your guiding principles and how did you know you were putting it back together in a way that worked. Lag had TGM guidance and the swinging protocol before deciding there was a better way…getting it deep then around which from what I understand is somewhere near where you ended up.

Thanks in advance.

I’ll go.

I am currently a high school sophomore. Golf has been a part of my life for as long as I can remember. My dad eats, sleeps, and drinks golf, and that has really rubbed off on me in the last 10 years. I was the kid that would go around on halloween as a pro golfer. In 1st or 2nd grade, I tried to do a book report on a Tom Watson rules of golf book (my teacher wasn’t exactly thrilled). I first started playing tournament golf when I was about 9. I had won the season-ending tournament in my group junior golf class at our course by 9 shots over 6 holes, and really wanted to try to play at a statewide level. I played in probably a dozen events from the age of 9-12 around the state, but the other kids at that level were so far beyond where I was that it was really discouraging. I ended up giving up golf at any kind of competitive level for a few years.

During 8th grade, I decided to work on my game in preparation for high school. I played 3 or 4 days a week for a year leading up to tryouts, but I didn’t really know what to expect. My high school has a very strong team, and 35 kids tried out for 3 spots that year. I basically melted down under the pressure, because of what it meant to me. I had always been the “golfer kid” through grade school, and it really stung for a while. I took 3 months off completely, seriously considering never touching a golf club again. Eventually, I decided to suck it up and get working, and long story short, this season I played in several matches and worked my way up to the 6 or 7 spot on our team (My match/qualifier avg. this year was 41 point something for 9 holes).

The season ended in the first week of November, and I decided to really start to rebuild my golf swing and make a commitment to improvement. I have made great strides in my game, and now go around my home course in the mid-70’s all the time, and I’ve broken par for 9 holes 4 times now. I found ABS about 8 weeks ago, and I’m currently finishing up module 1. My life is 24/7 nonstop golf in some form or another. I am willing to work as hard as I need to to get to a point where I can play competitive proffesional golf after college, at whatever level I can make it to. I am so thrilled to have this site as a resource and to have the opportunity to learn from people who have accomplished what I hope to achieve.

This is great great stuff. Andy I don’t know what I could possibly say except welcome back man there’s nothing in this world like teaching your son to play. Even if he doesnt say it right away every moment you spend with him on the course or the range or the putting green is gonna be just about the best either of you ever have. Neither of my two sons play seriously, one is a musician and the other is a future filmmaker but they can both play and it’ll be there for them to pick up anytime they want. That’s so cool that your son is wild about it. Full circle, very profound.

BR I had to take it to the next level and the most important part was finding a qualified teacher. I was 18 & had spent my high school years in a small town a couple hours east of the bay area taking lessons from the local pro who had taken me as far as he was capable of. I had terrible lines and had never even seen my swing on video. I met with about a dozen PGA Pros and various swing coaches before I met Tom Quinn. He already had a camcorder set up the first times I met him on a range in Modesto, CA and we spent over 10 hrs together that first lesson. He flattened and shortened my irons that day and he and I worked together for the next 5 yrs. Tom and Bud McVey were definitely the two most important golf coaches I ever had.

I went from being up on my toes and hunched over the ball taking the club pretty much straight over my neck to very level rotation back and through with a shorter than average arm swing and having a pretty good chase move post impact. Everything changed from my mechanics to the gear I played to my equipment specs to my ballflight to my scoring avg. My SR yr in college was best at 73.34 fourth best in the WCC that season. That next year on the Challenge it was 71.59 & ranked #46

I just now saw this thread! Great stuff, man…
Cheers

JRich the most valuable thing you can do is simplify simplify simplify. You go ahead and listen to whatever is out there but you question everything and eliminate anyone or anything that doesn’t give you an answer that doesn’t make total sense or that conflicts with what you know to be correct. This is where all that junk like TrackMan and the “new vs old ballflight laws” gets so dangerous. TrackMan doesn’t tell anyone anything and a qualified eye can absolutely see the same thing down to a single degree and put it into context as well. I know that I set up a stock iron shot with the blade 3° open, I know why & I know where my swing will overcompensate if I set up at 4° instead. TrackMan doesn’t have a clue and anyone who feels like they need TrackMan I personally don’t want anywhere within 10 miles of my mechanics because they don’t have a clue. And as far as I know the natural laws of physics haven’t changed in the last 10 yrs so there are no new or old ballflight laws, all there are are the same laws that have always been there. The ball takes off the clubface at between 1.4 & 1.46 times the clubhead speed under ideal conditions and you go from there.

Its absolutely true that you never stop learning but the older you get the harder it gets to find truth and common sense. Everything you want to learn needs to work with what you are already doing. Anything that doesn’t work perfectly with what you are sure is right needs to be set to the side for a later date or eliminated. That’s just the way it is.

Where to begin…I have loved the game since my dad would bring me with to the range when I could barely walk. I played just about every sport when I was a kid but I really took to golf early more so than the others. I was always by far the best player in my group of friends growing up but I never knew how good I was or why I was good, just knew I would beat them every time we went out. Starting playing state wide junior events when I was 11 I think and had a little bit of success but the kids were older and I was intimidated. Then got into middle school and started to really make some strides. We would play 9 hole events for school and I won every single event my 8th grade year. This is when I realized it was kinda cool being good at golf and started liking the attention I would get when they announced my wins at school. Started to take it more seriously and I stepped onto our high school team and played the #1 spot from the start and I went to a big school with 3000+ kids. Played alright fresh year and then in that summer I was the youngest guy to qualify for the MN State Open and that was an eye opener. Stepping onto the range with all the best pros and ams in the state was definitely a new feeling. Won a couple of the biggest junior events in the state and was started to really love the game and started to think about my golf game after hs. Sophomore year I averaged just over 73 for the year and went head to head with a kid that was a senior and went on to play for Michigan State and is now trying to make it professionally. I can still remember how much better that scoring average could have been. I had plenty of rounds where I would hit 15-16 greens and shoot 74. We would play in the spring in MN and the greens were always awful coming out from the winter. My favorite round was our conference tourney. They had just punched the greens and top dressed them so they’re all sandy. 4 putted the first green, few 3 putts but still made 6 birdies for 72. This is where things started to change. A local instructor watched me make 4 birdies in a row (and lip out a 5 footer for a fifth) and said he wanted me to come hit balls at his range all summer for free and he would help me as much as he could. This sounded great at the time because I had no idea what I was doing and I wanted to see how good I could get. Game got worse and then worse and then even a little worse. I stuck with him for a long time because he was so passionate and such a great guy I didn’t want to disappoint him. He would always say I could wait to pay him until I won my first check on the big show. We had such a good relationship that I think I tried to avoid confronting the fact that my game was deteriorating like crazy. Went to school in Florida to walk on and didn’t make it. They wanted me to stick around and try out the next year but I’m too stubborn and was just so pissed looking around seeing all these kids that didn’t have half the talent I knew I had. Transferred back home to a DIII school that I knew I could play all year and that was even worse because now I’m getting beat by the same kids that looked up to me in junior and high school golf. I just hated it and stopped competing and transferred again to a school with a bunch of my buddies from high school. I just wanted to get away from the game. It was tough because I realized that my success as a golfer had really defined who I was as a person. Now I’m wondering who I really am without golf. Not long after that I found ABS. I can’t thank you guys enough. I went through module 1 for a while but the change in schools and everything made it hard to stick with it. However, just reading through all the material from the top players on here has done wonders on my outlook of the game. It’s got me back to watching the greats and seeing how they did it which is what I grew up doing! All of a sudden after a long winter I went out and hit 14 greens the first day out and felt confident for the first time in years. I was firing at pins and when I stood on the box I was planning out how I was going to make birdie instead of how I was going to somehow keep it in play so I had a chance at par. More importantly the game was fun again. It was truly an incredible feeling. Just a year ago I hated the idea of going out and playing with friends from high school because I had no idea where the golf ball was going and I was incredibly embarrassed. Now I can’t wait to start taking their money again. (especially now that they think they can play with me :laughing: ) It’s been a long journey but I know I have become stronger because of it, not only in golf but in life. Now I’m planning on moving south after school in a year and seeing what I can do in this game. What a difference a year can make. I can’t thank you enough Lag, Two, LCD and all you guys. And thanks for starting this topic Alec, felt good to get that off my chest.

Oh hell yeah! How old are you now?

22

Don’t even think that you’re running out of time because you’re not. You’ve got until you’re 25 to start the clock on your eligibility for Division 1 unless the rules have changed since I was in college. The most important thing is keeping your grades up and your transcript in order if you’ve been enrolled in more than one school. As far as your game goes you need to push yourself and find the toughest competition you can. That’s easier said than done I know but it’ll show when you need it.also keep in mind that college coaches love guys that can post consistent numbers, they all want the guy who can post 74 everyday and guys like me who went 68-78 drive them nuts. It sucks but they are almost all like that. Also avoid the coaches who are on PING Staff if you’re doing ABS. I’d imagine there’s a ton these days.

Unfortunately with the transferring my transcript is all over the place. I had a tough enough time getting it sorted out where I could graduate with only one extra year up here. I have kicked around the idea of going to grad school for a year and playing because I think that would be an option. But my plan now is to move to Texas in year and see what happens. I’ve got a job lined up at a nice little club in Wichita Falls for this summer where I’ll have full privileges and I’m assuming that will still be there in a year too. I’m working on putting together a full tourney schedule for the summer. Lots of easy money with the kids there too :wink: . I would love nothing more than to get to the US Am this year and show all the kids up here that I’ve still got a little game. Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it.

Sounds good, go get em! But don’t do anything that would put your amateur status in jeopardy because even if your transcript is a mess it can be fixed. This would be the parent in me speaking and your game is your ticket to a degree even if it isn’t the most attainable or important thing to you at this moment. Also if you can walk on to a team in the fall you coach will hook you up with a counselor who will work with you and get you eligible for the spring. Make it a priority to at least drop a phone call to the coaches in the area this summer. I guarantee every one of them will talk to you and advise you well.

As much as I hate to admit it you and my parents are right when it comes to school. I guess I had just ruled out the option of jumping on a team. My buddy who I’m living with for the summer goes to Midwestern State in Wichita Falls and I think they have a pretty solid DII squad. It definitely wouldn’t hurt to start there and at least see what my options are. The school I’m at now has a highly regarded business school so that’s another good reason to just finish up here and then move on. And yeah I have heard from plenty of guys already that you never want to rush into giving up your amateur status.

When I got out of college, some of the big collegiate stars fizzled, and then there were guys that didn’t do all that great in college that really blossomed just playing around in the mini tour trenches for a few years.

There is something to be said for being able to work on your game without the distractions of school, muscle cars and fraternity parties.

Don’t overlook the importance of sponsors or financing. I spent a lot more time playing golf with the members around the nice country clubs in Fresno after I got out of school. It might have been more fun playing in the local “games” with the good local players, but I was wise enough to know that was not going to be my future. I had a stack or prospectuses in the trunk of my car I would gladly hand out every time I would shoot 66 and be asked… “wow, that was some kind of round… what are you plans?” I would gladly show them my plans… and if they weren’t personally interested or had the immediate cash flow to buy a share or two of my action, they would often know someone that they were dying to introduce me to. I took notes, had a binder and was very organized about it. There were plenty of other guys around that had as much talent as I did, but chose to just get drunk after the round with the guys and then go off to party every night… and they are still playing those same games with the same guys 20 years later. Nothing wrong with that… but I am glad I chose to focus on a broader experience traveling for 7 years on various pro tours.

This is a very good thread. I enjoy reading about how others developed their games…especially ones who have competed at various levels.

I started playing when I was 3 or 4 years old. My dad cut down an old persimmon and a couple of irons and I would hit them around the yard. When I got a little older he would take me to the course and I would ride in the cart and hit a few balls here and there. The 4th hole was about 140 yards and had about a 100 yard carry over a small pond and I always liked trying to drive it over the water, but I never could because I was too little.

I lost interested in golf when I was around 8. I played basketball and baseball and then eventually gave up basketball. I loved baseball and thought it was the only real sport. I was a good hitter and loved pitching. I think I was 11 or 12, my last year in little league before I had to move up in the age group, when I threw my arm out throwing curve balls. My right elbow would hurt so bad after a few pitches that I couldn’t stand it. To this day I can only throw about 10 hard pitches before it’s too painful to keep throwing.

After I hurt my arm I lost interest in baseball too. I loved pitching and didn’t want to play if I couldn’t. My dad was playing a lot of golf so I eventually asked him if I could go. I started going with him and played horribly, but had fun. I just took a big baseball swing at it and tried to hit the ball as hard as I could. I learned pretty fast that I was putting out a lot of effort to hit a 150 yard sliced drive, so I decided I would teach myself a better way.

My family moved to a golf course when I was 13 and I continued to practice. I played in the club championship the first year we lived there and I shot 112-106. Surprisingly it wasn’t last place, but close enough and I was embarrassed and ashamed of my scores. I continued to play and chip and putt slot and I shot in the mid to high 90s the next club championship. Everyone thought it was amazing that I could improve 10 shots or so in a year, but I was still mad at myself. I thought I had put in a lot of effort and I was disappointed. I decided to really focus on golf and that’s when my obsession with the swing started.

I bought every golf book and magazine I could and read every word and looked at every picture put out by the “top 10” instructors at the time. I didn’t take any lessons at first other than the summer golf camp type things at the local courses. I just read books and looked at pictures and tried to copy what I thought looked right. It didn’t take long to learn about Ben Hogan and he quickly became my idol. Hogan said the plane shifted out to the right in the downswing so I shifted it right and learned how to hit the ugliest push hook you’ve ever seen…but I practiced and got pretty good at playing my ballflight. I finished my 3rd club championship at 82-84.

I kept improving and eventually broke 80. I still think breaking 80 is the hardest thing to do in golf. It’s almost a right of passage to becoming a “real player” and I was so excited when I did it.

My junior year of high school was the first year I got to play full time on the high school team. We only played 9 hole matches and I thing my average for the season was 39 point something. The summer before my senior year I played a few junior Pepsi tour events and won my first tournament I’d ever won. I shot a 76 on a course I’d never played and won on the second playoff hole. My senior year scoring average was 37.2 and I tied for 2nd in the regional high school tournament with a 75. Our team won by 12 strokes. One of the highest ranked players in the state, who would eventually play with J.B. Holmes at the University of Kentucky, was in my group and shot 78 or something. I knew he didn’t play well at all, but I was proud that I beat him.

I played in the state high school tournament and probably played the best round I’d ever played in the first round. It was cold, windy, and raining and I started on hole 10, a par 3. I pulled my iron left of the green and got up and down for par. I made par on 2 and then had a disaster on 3. It was another par three and I landed on the front of the green and spun it back off. It rolled down into a hazard. I found my ball and it was sitting on a rock. I bladed it over the green and out of bounds. I dropped, chipped on, and three putted for a 7. Some how I pulled myself together and made 3 birdies on the front and eagled number 10 to go to one under. I was wet and cold and mentally exhausted from grinding out my score and finished with a 76. I was tied for 7th after the first round. My shoes were still soaked the next morning and the weather was just as bad as the first day. I think I shot 85 or something horrible to end my high school career.

I had hopes of playing professionally at some point if I could get my swing where I needed it. My dad had opened a golf retail store so I worked there and practiced as much as I could. I won a club championship shooting 73-75 the summer after I graduated high school. I also broke 70 for the first time when I three putted 18 for a 69. I shot another 69 my next round at a different course. I was playing with my dad both rounds so that made it extra special.

I moved south shortly after and got a job at a golf course. I was still playing well, but got a chance to play with done good college players and a few mini tour players and that opened my eyes real quick. I didn’t realize how far away my game was until I saw some of them hit the ball. My good rounds on an average 7000 yard course were around par give or take a stroke or two and their average rounds on the same courses were about 67. I got discouraged quickly.

Near the end of 2004 Hurricane Ivan hit near where I was living. I evacuated and came home. I started thinking about going back to school because I was tired of making minimum wage as a bag boy. After the hurricane was clear I went back, got my stuff, and moved back to KY. I went to school for a year for criminal justice and got lucky enough to get hired at a law enforcement agency a couple of months after my 21st birthday. I didn’t touch a golf club from the beginning of 2006 to 2009.

I started ABS in 2010 and hurt my right wrist on the bag. I took about 6 months off from ABS and then re-started it. I had a a few other setbacks, got busy with other things, and got married, so I’ve slacked big time with my practice. I decided to restate module 1 about a month ago and I’ve been doing my bag work every day. As soon as I can get a new camera in going to start sending Lag videos again.

I think ABS is great and reading through the LTLGM thread has taught me a lot of things and re-affirmed a lot of things that I thought were right, but had been told otherwise by the “top 10” swing gurus. Everything I’ve read from Lag makes so much sense and seems obvious when you read his explanations and thoughts. I’m very thankful for the Internet because it gives guys like Lag and Geoff Jones (Slicefixer) the opportunity to reach people they probably wouldn’t ever have reached. Ice gotten rid of every golf book with the exception of my Hogan stuff because everything I need is on this site.

Sorry for the long post. I hope to read some more of your stories.

It’s funny to read about all the high school players, current and past, in this thread. When I was in high school although golf was surely a solid pursuit and enjoyed by many, one was considered a “sissy” at our high school if they played either soccer, golf or tennis. Here’s how it went. Girls studied Home Economics and Typing and Bookeeping while the boys were in Shop and playing the big 3: Football, Baseball, and Basketball.

Once our football coach once got so pissed about how we played a few days prior took us out to the football field the next time with a soccer ball and said something like…Ok girls, since you don’t want to hit anyone how about we spend our time learing soccer instead. We spent a about an hour or so playing soccer. Same with golf really, it was just sort of unwritten and known that the real athletes played the big 3 and the wimps played the other ones. But in my senior year of highschool a team was formed that had some real good “country club” kids from where I used to caddy- they were juniors and I think the team finished, or were ranked 4th in the state at one time. They were pretty good.

I tried a little of the wimpy kid stuff in high school, mostly at a driving range where I would take my date and do my best Rat impression of a golfer…which was probably not too impressive but started an addiction to my unknowing self.

First “real round” I ever played was a disaster. A friend of mine who lived in the Atlanta area would often come to Michigan in the summer just to play golf. According to him at the time, the nearest public course for him was about a 40 minute drive. Hell, where I live now one can within 40 minutes probably find 200 courses easy. His thought was that the number of private courses in the Marietta area went hand in hand with segreation efforts. So he called and said get some clubs, I’m coming up and we’ll play.

Now I was a good athlete so borrowed some gear and without practice showed up. We’re waiting on the patio watching group after group tee off. I’m amazed at the number of people who messed up…how hard can it be afterall for a good athlete? Well the moment of truth arrived…Rat gets on the tee full of confidence and wiffs completely…not once, not twice but three times. When I finally made contact it went straight into the water about 30 yards in front of the tee. Very humbling. I think my first actual score was about 150 or something.

Went to the range afterwards, and don’t think I’ve ever left it. :laughing: