How to Shoot 65

Ok y’all want something to chew on for a while here we go. First of all I want to properly introduce myself. My name is Alec and I was a Golf Pro from 1995 to 2003. I played at Santa Clara University in Santa Clara, CA from 1993-95. I played the Euro Challenge Tour in 1996, Hooters in 1997 & '98 and too many different places to list from then until 2003. I enrolled in grad school at UCLA at the end of '03 and very rarely touched a club until the latter part of '09 when I accidentally found the ABS Site and got the itch to play again. I put my game back together about halfway and was planning on playing some small events last summer when a once in a lifetime opportunity came up for me to go work in Peru for 6 mo. I’m just now recovering from a nasty bout of tonsillitis I got while I was down there, I hope to be fully recovered in a few weeks.

As soon as I’m well I’m going to start a program and keep track of it here as I play my way back into shape. Since I stumbled across ABS I’ve been blown away that I’m not the only person who thinks that the game of golf has changed big time for the worse. Its dumb now and bears little resemblance to the game that initially attracted me about 25 yrs ago. In fact if I was 13 right now I don’t think I’d take up the game at all. I’d play 3rd base and catch instead. But I’m not 13, I’m 37 and I still love golf, but I love the game of golf I grew up with and that’s what I’m gonna play exclusively. I know it and I’m good at it. What that leaves me with though is since the game has changed I’m left competing against myself which I think is the most fulfilling way I could.

Great, but with TRGA and other ideas coming about… persimmon tours and a move into proper golf again, we can all make a difference. Change will happen. I believe pure golf ideals are bigger than any amount of money you can throw at the game over the long term. Courses are closing, the game is shrinking and for good reason. Weed out the weak, get back to focus on what this game is about, and we can all make a difference on many levels.

Be a persimmon player… wear that badge of honor proudly, and go out and kick ass… and show people that it’s the Indian, not the bow. Every time I go out and play a round with people I don’t know using persimmon and blades and shoot 68 or even 74 for that matter, I leave them scratching their heads. Many of them are now die hard ABSers making great strides of improvement and enjoying the game in a different level.

Say no to 7500 yard golf courses. Play courses where you need to hit the ball straight and are actually rewarded for doing so. It’s more enjoyable and more rewarding when you play well. Play the course properly… and shoot 65 with a variety of approach shots from long irons to wedges. Hitting wedge into every par 4, and mid irons into par 5’s is at best only 3 under par… yawn.

Golf is a hard game… never meant to be easy. That is what really makes it great.

I’d like to share as much as I can as I start back up here because if it wasn’t for ABS I wouldn’t want to play at all anymore. I’d like to say thank you to Lag and TM for putting an incredible resource together and giving guys like me a link back into the game. I don’t have any interest in hyping myself up or making any money from the game at all, I just want to find out how much game I’ve got left and offer any encouragement and advice to other players the way so many great players have helped me over the years. You have an absolute obligation in this game to pay it forward.

I’d also along the way like to further dispel the, notion that playing this game at a high level the right way with proper gear is all that hard. I’m not very athletic or have all that much natural talent but I’ve played some damn good golf in my time. I’m 6’1" 185 lb with small hands and knocked knees and I still get it done fine. Everything that I go through ill put up pics and video links as I do them, I know I’ve always played Mr Anonymous and not put up any pics or proof of what I’ve been talking about and that just doesn’t work very well.

I’d love to be on the range right now hitting 4 Irons rather than recovering in a mostly empty house but so be it. I don’t know exactly how I’m gonna work this yet but I can’t wait to get started.

Oh yeah rule no 1 on this thread is the only thing that matters is ball flight. No computers and especially no TrackMan!! Rule no 2 is see rule no 1. Any suggestions for additional rules are welcome.

This is gonna be fun—I look forward to reading more…


LCDV–thanks for sharing your knowledge and I know Lag, Two and others that have superior golfing skills will weigh in and make this a very enlightening and important thread. I hope you won’t mind stupid questions from me as we go along, I’m just trying to learn and get better. Thanks again for taking this on.


The only stupid question is the one that never gets asked. I think I perfected that in college… What I’m thinking for this thread is going about this in as Woodenesque a way as I can. I have a lot of drills and practice methods that have worked well over the years. In fact here’s a couple of putting drills that work well:

  1. Short Putts. Whenever I practice putting I always keep track of how many makes and misses and I always, ALWAYS make twice as many as I miss. This drill keeps the ratio up: 4 balls 4 tees go around the hole make 4 1 footers 4 2 fters 4 3 fters 4 4 fters 4 more 3 fters 4 2 fters then 4 1 fters all of them in a row. If you miss one start over from the beginning. Easy way to measure the distance is with the putter. The total length is about 36 in or close to it & the grip is close to 12 inches. So the grip to the front of the hole is 1 ft. The bottom of the grip to the heel is 2 ft, and the total length plus 1 grip is 4 ft. If you do this drill right you should be pretty dizzy by the end which adds a little to the difficulty lol.

  2. 15 fter drill 4 balls 2 tees. Measure a pretty flat putt exactly 15 ft (5 paces for me). Mark it with a tee and the other one goes 3 ft past the hole. Round 1: make 1 of 4. minimum every other gets to the back of the hole no more than 3 ft past. Round 2: make 2 nothing more than 2 ft past. Round 3 make 3 the miss goes less than 1 ft past. Round 4 make em all. I’ve been doing this godforsaken drill since the 11th grade and I’ve finished it successfully 6 times. Have fun guys.

I look forward to this LCDV. I wish you a speedy recovery.

And I’m a big John Wooden fan. Incredible man, incredible record.

Me three! HIs teams were so well prepared one hardly ever saw Mr. Wooden pace the sideline, jump out of his seat, sweat like a pig, or the other things coaches now do. He would sit there with a rolled paper in hand just watching his plan come to life. A real treat. :slight_smile:

Glad you stuck around LCDV…thought Peru had dragged you away from us…that internet access really sucks down there !!

Look forward to watching your thread unfold…like the sound of balata (ssswwwoooosshhh) on persimmon as opposed to the (ccluuunnkkk) of plastic on titanium

Thanks very much Bradley, it was amazing in Peru but I am glad to be back in the States and surrounded by creature comforts like safe plumbing and modern medicine again. You really take a lot for granted here and I know I’m pretty spoiled by it. My wife and I both love to travel but I think as we get older we love coming home more. You gotta applaud guys like Bruce Summerhays who basically live out of a suitcase for years at a time chasing the Champions Tour. It’s one thing to do that when you’re 25 & another altogether when you’re 55. Salesman’s life I guess.

I hope you feel better soon LCDV and look forward to see how this thread develops.

Hi lecoeurdevie,

Perhaps you could run us through the gear you’re choosing to play and any set up changes. (you’ve probably mentioned this in other threads, but it’d be nice if it was all in this thread).

Sure ill take some pics and load them up. Same Hogan Apex FT Irons I found a matching Ace and Sand Iron so it’s 1-SW Dynamic Gold X200 hardstepped 2 clubs, 1-8 is D5 9 is D6 EW is D8 SW is I think E0 or close. 5 Iron is 38 1/2" long everything is 5 flat with pretty standard lofts. Driver is 9° 43 1/2" DG X400 3 & 4 Wood X300 42 1/2 & 42", all taper tip trimmed 3/4" from tip and butt trimmed to length from raw 45" old stock shafts all D4. Grips are all Neumann calf wraps on round Winn W3 underlistings. Putter is a 36" Wilson 8802 circa about 1994 with the Head Speed shaft and stock Wilson leather grip. I flattened it some by hand and set the loft at 2 3/4°.

I had to crop the pics to make it upload but this should work ok.

Damned llamas! :wink:

Captain Chaos

LCDV–I’ve come to appreciate the golf swing as circles and arcs, but do you think there is flat spot in there at impact and right beyond? I’ve noticed working on Lag’s modules, especially post impact and up that there seems to be one, especially when I feel the clubface in my right hand after impact, right wrist still cocked, everything moving left, but right hand facing the sky, but moving flat. Feel ain’t real, except in my head, where it counts.

Definitely. That’s the moment of truth and there are those who have argued that was an elongation of the space-time continuum when you do it right. If nothing else the impact zone is going to be an intersecting of the arcpoints which you want to define as specifically as possible where two converging paths meet in the creation of a third entity.


Great looking thread. Really looking forward to some more of your insight. One thing that’s a plus in regards to the ABS site is the insight of “players”. I’m so tired of the usual “here’s how to stop your slice” bs that so many other sites, mags, books, etc offer. Certainly there’s the golf pyramid and everyone wants to cater to the “85 percentile and below”… so it’s good to see Lag and others try and appeal to the other 15%. :slight_smile:

A bit off-topic but it looks like you managed to find the matching SW to that set… a lucky ebay purchase or what?


This thread should be great. I am a high school golfer that recently started the ABS program. I am passionate about the game and will do whatever I can to play golf for a living. I have a long way to go (i’m about a 3-4-5ish hcp now, although down from a 14-15 a year ago) but I know I have great information sources and I have the desire and the practice facilities to get it done. I look forward to learning something in this thread.