Looks to me that the energy in the club shaft has released (no doubt into the golf ball). In fact, you can see that the left wrist has fully released because the wrist is in ulnar deviation.
Those pics where describing clubface hinging action, less roll, and a great way to achieve this is to work toward a pivot driven release rather than a pivot stall- hand flip which tends to increase clubface rotation through and post impact, which by your posts would lead us to believe is the type of stalling action you promote with your own swing.
Lag,
You quoted what Twomasters said. (see quote directly above) Are you suggesting that Two has a stalling action in his swing that he promotes?
No, I was quoting Twomasters because you didnāt seem to understand his post. He was talking about hinge action with Furyk not holding shaft flex.
I am suggesting that your preference is a pivot stall- passive hand throw through impactā¦ which would make sense if you believe that once the golf ball leaves the clubface, nothing matters.
You and I will simply have to agree to disagree. You can hit it that wayā¦ not me.
Think we have some Mike Austin strobe light inspired proof of post impact clubhead acceleration here, if we are prepared to accept video camera shutter speed as proof of such a thing.
Iād say the shaft is bent-back due to collision with the golf ball, not because the shaft was [still] loaded due to"increasing" acceleration.
Slightly past parallel 3 the clubshaft was very straight. Just prior to impact the clubshaft looked to be only slighty loaded. Near parallel 4 it looks like the clubshaft deflection (caused by collision) was recovering.
GoLow
You are becoming more and more of a non objective nay sayer. With a shaft frequency of about 300 (I think Parker uses X 100 shafts) it takes 1/300 seconds (AKA 0.3 mili seconds) for passive flexion to recover/rebound the first time. In case of Parker he is holding that flex for much longer. In the Charlie Howell vid I posted the shaft vibrates twice in less time than Parker. Of course you can say that Parkerās deflection is a seecond or third vibration and I have no way of proving its not. But as we know the third deflection will be smaller than the first so it is unlikely as in that case the sahft might have broken through impact.
PS: Those multiple vibrations can be better seen on the youtube video.
I was more refering to the distance that the clubhead has travelled than the flex in the shaft (ala the Mike Austin strobe light experiment). Parker seems to be able to move it [the clubhead] more after impact than he does before [impact].
Though to my eyes, the shaft is flexed both pre and post impact, so what the heck.?
Go Low would you be kind enough to to share with us your pre-impact shaft flex position please?, the one from the same video that you use in your avatar, I dare say you still have the same video.
Do you really know what is required to accelerate through the golf ball? Do really you know what is required to sustain (I did not use the word āholdā) flex in a golf shaft through the golf ball? Do you know why swinging harder and trying to accelerate the club causes poor results?
Has tangential acceleration been explained to you in great detail as it applies to the golf swing? If not, I highly suggest you learn about it. I suggest that you first learn the difference between centripetal force and tangential acceleration so you will have a clear understanding how it differs in a golf swing regardless of how the golfer moves the club to hit a golf ball (hitting, swinging, etc.). Then I suggest that you learn about what causes stalling of tangential acceleration. It is extremely important in terms of understanding what happens in an expert golferās swing pertaining to acceleration of the club through and beyond impact (which is a major focus in ABS training and swing technique). After you are enlightened it should be an eye-opener to why amateur golfers have such poor and inefficient golf swings when they actually work much harder than the pros. You may be surprised to learn that a golferās effort to increase acceleration and speed of the club/clubhead in the wrong way actually slows it down.
These should help you get started:
physicshelpforum.com/physics ā¦ post2.html (Excellent explanation describing tangential acceleration.)
thehurl.wikidot.com/tuning:count ā¦ tall#toc11 (This is the best I could find about stalling tangential acceleration in the short period of time I looked for something. Read about āTransferring Energy to or from the Armā and āStalling the Tangential Componentā.)
My shaft position is very straight pre-impact with ample shaft lean. I use stiff shafts with very firm tips in driver, 3-wood and hybrid and DG X100 shafts in the irons.
All students on module 3 or more know all this stuffā¦some of the smart ones work it out earlier
I think u under estimate the learning capacities of this forum and itās students because you donāt have access to the student forum to see what is amongst the pages thereā¦not being a student
Our students do a great job of not divulging too much in the public forum because what they learn is special in itās own sanctuaryā¦so we keep major discussions in that area amongst students for their own learning purposesā¦what you link to there is really nothing new
Lag mentions all that stuff and more in many parts of all sections on the forum also if you go looking deep enough amongst the pages.
Cāmon GolOw give us something good and outside the normā¦something swing related and how to achieve what YOU think is necessaryā¦
please remember golf is more art than scienceā¦just like painting ā¦if Michealangelo worried about angles and conservation of his brush strokes whilst working on the Sistene Chapel, we would still have a blank roof to look up at from belowā¦science is helpful for understanding some things in golf but it doesnāt do the work for youā¦
1 Like
Why are you here Go Low? I would really like to know what your motives are.
Please donāt get me wrong, I think its great that you are, I just wonder to what end?
GoLow
we really dont have time for this hocus pocus; but for that kind of stuff duel it with Mandrin on the COAM forum linked above (if he is still around). We will be glad to watch. 
The combined efforts of hands, wristcock, forearm rotation can work as passive hinges (swinging) or active motors (hitting)
Swingers cannot hold shaft flex. Swingers will strike the ball based upon momentum.
Hitters can motor the shaft via active forearm rotation and wrist action, and have the ability to hold shaft flex and hit the ball with
force (which requires acceleration by definition). The presence of CF can to some degree conceal the holding of shaft flex, because both will
be present at the same time (CF and tangential). Shutter speeds and camera lenses, iris settings all affect the photographic visual which complicates
the study of sequence photos which often create confusion in the scientific analysis. However, none of those things affect proper intentions. Pre impact
shaft flex hold is the key moment. Too much forward shaft lean is not a good intention because you are not able to utilize the loft on the club properly, and there also is a tendency to disconnect the left arm from the body which is not a good idea if you are truly driving the club with the pivot along with hand and forearm rotation.
GoLow appears to be trying to make sense out of a hitting protocolā¦ but looking at all this through swinger tinted lensesā¦ like trying to fit a square cube into a triangular hole.
Passive hands, forward shaft lean, disputing the ability of a golfer to hold shaft flexā¦ this is all coming from a swingerās vantage point.
This is probably the biggest problem with golf instruction, because very few instructors understand the very real reality of this situation and their differences.
From GoLows post on page 15 of the Lagās Personal Equipment Specifications forum:
Moving to the other class of golfer - they are the ones that werenāt able to get it. The serious ones that have never been able to get it are the people that are constantly searching for the answer, the secret, the magic move, the way, the methodā¦that will allow them to have an efficient and effective swing. They are the ones that buy all the different clubs, training aids, gagets, books, etc. They will try most anything and everything. They are actually fun to watch (most from afar) because they exude their seriousness, but also their frustration.
How much fun is your participation @ ABS GoLowā¦as you cannot be further away than you are now.
RR
Lag,
I believe I have stated more than once that I have no problem with swinging or hitting. I have done both. I can do both. A hitting protocol (as you like to call it) makes perfect senseā¦as does swinging. You are the one that clearly favors one over the other. Many would agree with you, yet there are many that would not.
You say that; āswingers cannot hold shaft flex.ā Sure they can! But only if (āifā) you mean that shaft flex can be sustained by tangential acceleration (which all good golf swings have) in lieu of somehow physically āholdingā flex with some sort of muscle-induced effort that prevents a good release to happen due to an overly tight grip. (Something I do not understand or agree with.) Swingers do a pretty good job of compressing the golf ball you knowā¦
As for forward shaft lean, the amount of shaft lean is not something you physically try to make happen. Forward shaft lean should take place naturally based on swing dynamics, which includes grip, wrist cock, forearm roll, release, ball placement, etc. Thatās why some golfers (regardless of swing type) have more shaft lean and others have less. The key is to have an ample amountā¦
As for passive hands, a swinger will use less grip pressure at transition and during the downswing and thus will naturally have freer moving wrists than a hitter will, but both swing types need to be able to transfer the clubās built-up energy (however it is created - basically aggressive pivot drive & right arm extension or pivot drive and centrifugal/centripal swinging) into the golf ball during collision. This means that both types of swings must have a degree of passive hands/wrists āthrough the impact zoneā. Otherwise there will be a significant amount of energy that will not go into the golf ball and this misplaced energy will instead be forced back into the golferās body, noticed mostly through the hands and left armā¦and likely a poorly balanced through-swing and finish position of the arms, hands and club. That said, if a studentās belief is that he needs to increase his arm speed in order to increase the clubās acceleration so the shaft flex is not lost he will almost certainly have extremely firm wrists through the impact zoneā¦and will not fully transfer the clubās energy into the golf ball.
I have mentioned tangential acceleration - which is what ākeepsā the shaft loaded or flexed. It is not done by intentionally trying to increase arm or club speed because doing so actually stalls tangential acceleration. I have also mentioned stalling this all-important tangential acceleration - which is caused by either purposely slowing the armās speed in the belief that doing so will effectively release and fling the clubhead powerfully into the golf ballā¦or [most problematic among handicap golfers] by āintentionallyā trying to āholdā or increase arm speed through impact in an attempt to increase the clubās acceleration and thus sustain shaft flex. Understanding these two things (tangential acceleration & what causes stalling of the tangential acceleration) is key to knowing how to sustain shaft flex. If a golfer physically tries to āholdā shaft flex, or if the golfer āintentionallyā tries to āincreaseā the speed or acceleration through impact he will actually stall the [tangential] acceleration and lose the shaft flex he is trying physically so hard to sustain for maximum ball compression and all that it offers. 99.9999% of golfers do not know or understand this. I never see this crucially important topic talked about, therefore I can only presume it is either not taught, or if it is there is very little focus on it. (I have attempted to prompt you and/or the ABS students to talk about this topic, but was never successful. Now that I have brought this topic up Twomasters has revealed that this topic is covered in the Module 3 training and students āknow all this stuffā. However, it certainly appears there has been no meaningful explanation about itā¦or there would have been discussions about it.)
As an aside, Twomasters said that I; āunder estimate the learning capacities of this forum and itās students because you donāt have access to the student forum to see what is amongst the pages thereā¦not being a studentā And also; āOur students do a great job of not divulging too much in the public forum because what they learn is special in itās own sanctuaryā¦so we keep major discussions in that area amongst students for their own learning purposesā¦what you link to there is really nothing newā
I would like to address the above comments by saying that in no way do I underestimate the ABS studentās learning abilities. Not having access to the private student forum I have no way of knowing for sure what is being discussed, but it is doubtful the topics I have brought forward have been discussed or if they have, itās not a primary topic. You (Lag) have stated more than once that the golf swing you endorse is not something new. It is the training that you offer to best achieve the swing that is unique, thus the cost to purchase the training modules and the private student forum. I understand this and have no problem with it. That said, the topics I have brought up are not ātrainingā or workout related ā they are swing related, which you have acknowledged is nothing new. In fact, swing related discussions are discussed openly in the public forum all the time. Therefore, I donāt see that me discussing these topics should be a problem. (Please let me know if you feel differently.) So, why would the topic of tangential acceleration and what causes stalling of tangential acceleration which is so prevalent in handicap golferās swings) not be discussed in the public forum?
Hi NRG,
I ran across the ABS forum and found it to be both different and interesting. Lag does a great job of communicating and has a lot of good stuff to offer his students. I guess you could say I was drawn in, which should be considered a good thing because I would suspect thatās what is wanted.
I only have good intentions (thereās that word again) - I have no sinister motives whatsoever. I believe I can offer some thought-provoking discussion and information that will help some people here. My intent (thereās that word again) is not to provoke people, however itās clear I haveā¦at least to some degree. Iām glad to know that you are glad that Iām here. Hopefully some others feel the same.
Thatās all I need to hear. Anyone ready for a diagnosis? RR
RR, what I meant by āmost from afarā was keeping some distance on a golf course or practice range. It really is fun to watch because every golfer has experienced frustration when learning. No one ever just picks up a golf club and strikes the ball well. Sadly, most golfers keep a strong level of frustration because they never āget itāā¦meaning an efficient and effective golf swing. They are indeed constantly searching for the answer, the secret, the magic move, the way, the methodā¦
Hocus-pocus! Conservation of angular momentum is related to tangential acceleration, but actually they are very different. Conservation of angular momentum is one thing, tangential acceleration is something different. That is why they are called something different.
I guess it can be said that unless someone tells you about it, and why it should be important to you, you wonāt learn something that might help you achieve your goal. Thatās up to you. You really should be interested! Iām not dueling with anyone.
I noticed you used the word āweā. Do you speak for everyone here? Just curiousā¦
There seems to be a good discussion here in the link above GolOwā¦you must have missed this thread because you say there is nothing out in the public forum but there is plenty out there if you scroll through the pages
I think if you believe you know so much about it allā¦go ahead and start your own threadā¦call it 'GoLowās laws" or some titleā¦whatever you want
How about you start one offā¦make your observationsā¦let people have an opportunity to dissect your stuff, because you seem very quick to tear everyoneās explanations apart yourself and like I saidā¦offer little in return except trying to prove everyone here is retarded in their thoughts and know little about what they are talking about.
On one hand you say this site is awesome and Lagās explanations are brilliant and then in the next breath you say what is being said is all cross talk and not correct??
I donāt get whatās behind your motivation eitherā¦ 
If you feel the need to prove yourself to someone out thereā¦then start your thread and fire away
And again, until someone knows your background in golf most of what you say will be taken with a grain of salt as it all just sounds written from books or lifted from blogs and forums to this point