I don’t have anything against the Ben Hogan emblem, it’s slick and I play two sets of his Medallions, but is there any chance of you switching back to our red helmeted mighty mouse or do I have to sick another rooster on you?
1teebox
I’m with 1T… BRING BACK THE RAT! BRING BACK THE RAT! Have you got something against red helmets all of a sudden, RR?
Come on guys…you know rats never look back because we are too busy nibbling on the things in front of us, and besides, it’s against our nature to step backward. May the little rodent rest in peace…and may all roosters cook evenly.
So let it be written…so let it be done. 
RR
No hidden messages…just one of those lazy days at the range when after one too many red pills The Rat saw some interesting tangents to curves contained within sine waves. If you look at the avatar and compare with the green circle you will see the “H”. I know, I know…too much time and red pills on my hands. There is a larger inverted “H” in the diagram…can anyone spot it.
But there are some interesting tangents going on here. Bottom line…it’s a inside to inside cut move… 
RR
I may need some of them pills . . . . what perspective are we viewing this from . . . . seems interesting but I’m at a loss for context/perception at this point . . . sorry mang . . . . no chemicals in the gene pool down here.
Great stuff, RR! You’re hitting on some of that Da Vinci code stuff I’ve been cracking… very, very interesting!
Cheers…
Sorry…the red pills are reserved for me and IOZ…and maybe Dani and Two also if and when they finally see the light. 
As for perspective…it’s both 2 and 3 dimensional. Two dimensional as if the diagram is drawn on the ground…like Doyle’s mat for example…and 3 dimensional in terms of depth, feel, circular paths-orbit pulls. Don’t put too much into it as it’s just something from a rat’s minds eye…or is it? 
Like Captain said long ago…good thing Ben’s name wasn’t Samuel RR
Bom…you’re gonna love this.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohp6Okk_tww[/youtube]
And to think that rats can only navigate straight corridors within a maze. Balderdash! 
RR
Boy, is that beautiful! And to think you were going to take an early Rat Vacation…
One of the things that I’m fascinated by is the different shapes that a circle can come in, or the different forms it can take. I really think this conversation should be on the Fib/Spiral thread btw… shall we?
Sounds good to me. I was initially going to post there but I thought I might be getting into a thread-jack situation. I still am not clear what one is. So instead I chose to seque off of NRG’s comment.
I hope this is the right phrase to use…Admin or Mods ( sound like the greasers or frats ) please park this, and the five posts directly above, to the Fib/Spiral thread. Or do I have to do that? Hope not…no telling where it may end up RR
Does the club plane follow the sine wave or the centre of gravity of the club? or is it the sweet spot?
Where do you feel those lines youve drawn RR? is it the club plane? I almost feel those in the grip!
Very cool diagram btw and wow! wating for the 3D version so we can see the forearm rotation impact on the sine!
Dave
The sine-line is really the hand path in large measure…as you said feeling it your grip. There’s much the diagram does not show. It does not address shaft attitudes going back until things are loaded at the top; downloading into the ground to get lower; where pressures are applied, etc. It’s just really a digram to show another way of looking at circles, arcs, and tangents to them. RR
I find this following video interesting…have to go half way through to see the swing vision section with Kostis swinging a hickory.
So yes…wooden shafts bend more and are whippier
however
Could the shaft be bending more because Kostis is swinging the club in a manner that makes this occur more? Obviously steel should produce less club shaft flex but if we are trying to hold the flex does the equipment matter so much…OR…does our swing intentions matter more?
Good point to discuss in my opinion in light of the other thread that is asking all kinds of questions.
I shall let you all discuss… I know my observation from experience…
I have also seen Lag hold flex in whippy ladies shafted clubs…so is it the indian or the arrow?
Why does Kostis roll the head over so quickly after impact-- equipment?..him?.. or a combination of both?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzL78_x2aI[/youtube]
Tiger also rolls the club pretty quickly after impact as evidenced below even with stiff shafts and hi tech gear…so again…indian or arrow?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slBBHy-S1pE[/youtube]
Hope I don’t open a can of worms but it would be good to see opinions why this happens and why it can be stopped from happening
Cans of worms are good, gets us all thinking. There was a guy years ago, during Tiger’s prime run, who claimed he could outdrive him. His video was all about intentions, starting acceleration 4 inches from the ball, with the goal being to start acceleration 1 inch from the ball.
Anyway, when you’re holding flex, do you feel increasing pressure in your hands to P4, other parts of your body? And when you don’t hold flex, what is the feeling?
Thank you Godfather… 
Lot’s to think about. I tend to think at times that swingers who let the shaft/head leak rightward after impact combined with a left turning body will cause a disturbance in how the head reacts against the shaft in playing catch up to the hands.
In hitting, since we are going left with the body…why not get everything go the same way on it’s true path and this will cause less disturbance in those relationships. Looks to me like Kostis has a pretty wimpy right hand prior to impact…even for a swinger and this has something to do with those relationships approaching the ball.
Also looks like to me that on Tigers shot the toe opens a hair and this would again cause some catch up problems, especially if a leakage right also occurs.
Again…many questions. Way beyond me in many ways, but I would side with intentions being primary and gear secondary as a composite mix of dynamics…as long as the gear is matched to the intentions. I mentioned in another thread about my friend who uses hickory regularly. I can swing them OK, but I am anxious to see what happens with hitting and how the shaft reaction feels. I hope they don’t snap coming out of P3.
I too would like to know if going hard left while hitting corrects some of those shaft bendings we saw in the videos. I think that it would.
Good stuff.
The shaft was responding exactly as it should have! Why would you want to stop it from happening? You endorse that the clubshaft should react exactly opposite from how Tiger’s clubshaft reacted. I do not think you want that to happen, nor do I personally think it can be made to happen when hitting a good golf shot using a real golf ball.
If (“if”) you could somehow alter the shaft’s action I would think it would be best to alter the shaft’s action only on the pre-collision side of the golf ball so the clubshaft and clubhead is more loaded with energy (lagging or sprung-back) before impact, and then releases and transfers that energy into the golf ball during collision.
I was talking about clubface roll over with Tiger after impact the same as kostis…very quick closing of the face …nothing more…not the shaft bend…club face roll (which goes hand in hand with holding the flex…as all the students at ABS know only to well)
Trevino, Hogan, Furyk don’t roll the club closed post impact and ALL hold flex very well into impact…so how come Kostis and Tiger roll the club like crazy and Trevino, Hogan and of today’s golfers Fuyrk do not?
here’s some great pics of Furyk…he has no clubface roll over and if I am not mistaken (I know your answer already)…could there be a hint of holding the flex of the shaft after impact? or is it all distortion or downward bend or trick photography?
2 Likes
Oh is that what you were getting at…easy answer…but will have to wait til tomorrow…the rat’s nest covers have been turned down and time to have a duel with the sand man. 
RR
Trevino sure liked the idea of that clubface just “lookin at dat target just a little bit longer”
OK morning coffee in the veins and ready to go.
Easy answer…holding wrist cock and creating and using a larger flat spot- as opposed to Tiger who holds wrist cock but dumps into the ball and really doesn’t have much of a flat spot.
That’s my view and I’m sticking to it RR