Bom thanks for the swing sequence!
Intesting that in frame 4 the shaft is bent towards the toe and in frame 6 (impact) it has unflexed the other way. Almost a droop.
Exactly.
Bom
whats your key movement/thought for keeping the shoulder high. I know Lagās is to initiate the downswing by knee flex; but as the knees are hung in air I have a hard time relating to knee moovment. I would rather do something with my feet than knees. I try to keep my weight on the front of the right foot in the backswing and then rock back onto the heel (like a back foot cover drive in cricket).
Macs, Iām just not seeing the weight shift to the heel to start down, if thatās what youāre saying. This is a long conversation and gets to some of my own problems with the Snead style squat that Iāve mentioned before. I like to feel a purpose in my legs and feet, I like to know that theyāre doing what I want to do, and thatās what I see in the great swings that Iām drawn to. Not to say that that type of squat canāt work, because Snead was pretty decent to say the least, but itās not my preference for a lot of reasons.
As far as the high right shoulder goes, part of it is understanding and embracing it as a concept and understanding the basic structure of the body in motion. Something has to go down, this is just the way it is, so if you donāt want the right shoulder to do it too soon, what are your options? Iāve asked several times what a ālevel shoulder turnā is, but Iāve never gotten an answer, it must be a secret. But in my mind thereās always at least some spine angle and some shoulder angle to match, this is relevant. The feet tend to receive action from above and facilitate and enable that. Itās not that they do nothing, because they do a lot, but I wouldnāt see them as initiators as such. Thatās not to say that you canāt feel it all in them.
ālevel shoulder turnā
My perception ā¦has been that a turn where the shoulders are at roughly 90 degrees to the spine is ālevelā. Also, one that is more parallel to the ground is āmore levelā than shoulders that are very steep at impact.
it has been pointed out somewhere, that although someone may look very āflatā at the top, he may be very āsteep/ not levelā ā¦ānot flatā at impactā¦eg Matt Kuchar.
As you ( Bom) have pointed out, āleaving the lineā is good. Level shoulders should promote this as opposed to steep shoulders. Howvere, steep shoulders may be needed by someone to compensate for another less desired procedure.
level shoulders ā¦more like a merry go round
steep shouldersā¦more like a ferris wheel
Hey Bomā¦hereās another way to look at it. Suppose you were standing at address with the head of a giant Phililps screw head between your feet- but out in front of you a little bit. Now suppose the the club was actually a Philips screwdriverā¦at the correct length to allow the screw driver to be exactly vertical to the ground while seated within the screw slots.
If the task was to turn the screw head counter-clockwiseā¦the shoulders are going to have to go level in order to torque all sides of the screw slots with appropriate pressure. If the turn occurs with a steeper shoulder tilt there will be a high probability of stripping the screw slots. Something like that. In fact, during the dropping aspect from the top, the shoulders will feel like they are dropping from their coiled position at the top into screw slot that is parallel to the inside lines of the feet. Just my take on it anyway.
Iām was going to try to post a diagram of this that I worked on in my Paint sectionā¦but it wouldnāt post, and the message saidā¦āthe extension bmp is not allowed.ā What the heck does that mean. 
RR
Thanks for the thoughts, guys. Obviously I understand the basic concept, but Iām more wondering about the term ālevelā in a literal sense, thatās what Iād like to get a clearer idea of. Level to the ground? Level to the spine angle? Level to the spinal tilt? Level to what? When Iām trying to understand something or get to the bottom of it, I try to deal with specifics, and I try to use words that get close to those specifics, so when I hear the term ālevel shoulder turnā I simply want to know what itās level to. Or if itās just an intent or swing thought. Is it a case of setting the bar high in conceptual terms? I just donāt know what it specifically means or if it even means specifically anything.
The Kuchar observation was also pointed out by me, but Iām not keeping score, Iāve just been cursed with a good memory 
Cheersā¦
B
No problem Bom.
Dad-burnedā¦I reckon Iām slipping a bit in my old age. 
Are there modules for that?
Just save it as a jpg or png from within Paint, many boards donāt allow bitmaps due to their large storage size.
Hi Bom,
The shoulders rotate level or flat with the spine. It would be difficult, if not impossible, to rotate the shoulders level or flat with the ground since a golferās spine is tilted forward and likely has an axis tilt away from the target as well. However, I donāt see anything wrong with thinking of the shoulders rotating level or flat with the ground if it helps your intent. It may even help you cover-the-ball better with the right shoulder.
The principle behind rotating the shoulders level or flat at the 4:30 line when you turn on the pivot afterburners is to pull the club left out of the orbit the club is being swung (with pinned or connected arms) into a tighter (smaller radius) arcā¦or circle. This quick leftward pull of the club out-of-orbit (from a large radius downswing arc into a much smaller or tighter radius arc) greatly increases the speed of the club and the stress on the club shaft. You could think of it as snapping a whip - when the whipās end forms a tight radius. A better understood example would be - if you have ever been water sking you know how the skier is slung tremendously faster if the boat (that is pulling the skier) turns left as the skier is skiing in an arc to the rightā¦and the tension of the skierās rope increases tremendously too. The change in force when changing from a wide radius arc to a tighter radius arc is unreal. I believe it squares as a math factor. To handle the increase force takes muscle strength and pressure against the ground (or against the water in the case of the water skier). My days of water sking were years ago, but I recall the sensation and feel of the forces at work, which Iām guessing increased by at least 50%, if not close to double or greater, depending on the speed and how tight of a [radius] turn the boat made. As a skier, it felt like you were being launched from a massive slingshot. Thatās the same forces that can work for you with your golf swing. Itās just knowing how to do it and applying the technique. Lag definitely knows his stuff about the golf swing and uses his writing skills to explain it like no other Iāve ever seen.
Again, GoLow, I do appreciate the post, but as they say, Iām long enough in the tooth to understand the basics of the concept. I know and appreciate well Lagās ability to convey ideas through words, but my question is more specific than you might realize.
Cheers,
BOM
Btw, I like youāre signature quote, itās a timeless classicā¦
Thanks Stebā¦Iāll give it a go next time. RR
Flat or level rotation on the left, compatible with a pivot driven hit.
Steep shoulders more compatible with a CF dump release.
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I think the level shoulder turn is related to sequencing the pivot and leg drive (depends weather you consider that separate from the pivot). You can either drive your legs from P3 to P4 causing some raising of the plane as the knees are straightening; or you can use them together. In Lagās version you try to delay the leg drive by applying horizonatal ground pressure, let the torso/spine/shoulder complete its own range of motion and pull the legs up with it a bit later. That is level shoulders. The club goes left and stays near impact plane for longer.
PS: I started typing this before Lagās post but those pics demonstrate the difference in the leg drive pretty nicely.
Bom said
Carl Jacobi , the great mathmetician.
from Wikipediaā¦
Hogan, a golf genius, figured out a similar thingā¦and maybe even expanded on it , solve hard problems by DOING the opposite thing.
Thanks for the info, guys, makes perfect sense. I was unsure if there was a more literal interpretation of it which is why I was askingā¦
Cheersā¦
Nothing earth shattering here except for some serious flex retention. All Iām really doing though is practicing uploading something from the webisphere. Took me a while to figure out how to delete crap from the print screen that wasnāt neededā¦would have liked not having the scroll barā¦Thanks again Steb for the help. Any ideas how I could have posted the image without having the scroll bar.
Iām slowly catching up on this computer stuff but have miles to goā¦but happy with the progress Iāve made so far. When I get up to speed howeverā¦watch outā¦itās a new ball gameā¦Range will take your lunch money and your milk money. 
RR
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Ahah!..just learned how to grab an image elsewhere and resize it for an avatar. This stuff is getting addicting. Learning this computer stuff is like my own version of digging it out of the dirt.
Figured since I found the cheeseā¦no use for a helmeted rat avatar anymore. RR
Well done Rat!
First smiley faces, then uploading attachments and now grabbing images. You are becoming a right Geek.
What was the hidden message in that logo?