Golf Illustrated Oct 2010 Hitting vs Swinging

The problem I have always had with TGM is this debate over swinging and hitting. This magazine seems targeted at the average golfer, the average golfer in my opinion wants to be told what to do to get better. When I talk with my golfing group many of them are not interested if they are swingers or hitters, they just want to shoot some low scores. I feel like swinging and hitting is sort of like a “how the watch works” sort of knowledge. My golfing group just wants to know what time it is. My worry is that this might be one level above what the average golfer understands or cares about.

Now the message of ABS in my opinion is one that I would like to see in a magazine. If I tell my golfing buddies that they can get better by doing exercises away from the course working with an impact bag, well, they are going to be all ears. Why? Because most golfers already know that mindlessly hitting balls at the range does not work. They still do it because they don’t know any other way, but I can tell you most average golfers when being brutally honest would admit they only get moderate to no improvement from beating balls. Drills like the modules here are a pathway to improvement. Module 1 right off the bat improves golfing muscles. I think golfers will want to hear about this.

This is not to downplay the article, I am happy to see it, and I certainly hope that Lag writes many more. For me though, I would like to see Lag tell golfers that we can get better away from the course working on drills. I think this will play big with golfers.

I’m not particularly interested in targeting my teaching work toward the general golfing public… therefore we have
“Advanced Ball Striking”.

Most golfers are more interested in purchasing a new gadget club.

I am thankful I can handle the student load I have, and I enjoy working with passionate golfers who are willing to put in
a bit of “sweat time” and have enough forward vision to see past the latest fad or swing tip.

Anyone who has been working with the bag on early modules is well aware of the need for constant monitoring. Just writing an article about how hitting a bag is going to help your swing without proper supervision is not likely to be of much help…probably harmful.

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I applied to get a membership to the “general golfing public” and was rejected. That’s why I’m here, but I had to pay double! :wink:

Captain Chaos

Captain Chaos, you my friend have to pay double just for wearing that RED CAPE :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Nice Work! Lag! I will be buying three one to read and two for you and Al to sign them :sunglasses:

Very happy Student :wink:

I am having trouble to get the magazine from Melbourne Australia. I tried to email but no reply.

Golf Illustrated Magazine NOT in Barnes and Noble yet so i will have to wait. Bummer in So.CAl :open_mouth: Back to drilling on Mod 3 so I can conquer Mod 4. :slight_smile:

BallTurf :laughing:

I saw the magazine in Canada back in September; it may be off the shelves by now.

You’re right :cry: I read the new one that is out at two Barnes and Nobel now. I also wrote Shelly a e-mail so just waiting for know. If any one could post the article that would be cool :sunglasses:

Ball Turf

Man I did not buy it. :blush:


I bought a copy today from a local newsagent two hours drive east of Melbourne so they are around. The only problem was I had to pay A$12.70 and the US list price is $3.99. That is a big mark up just because it is a US import particularly with our exchange rate almost parity these days…bushranger

I have read, and re-read the article several times.

I have to be honest even though I’ve read about the differences between swinging and hitting several times from several sources, the article definitely sums it up in a neat package meant for a ‘magazine’ audience.

I think this article makes me actually want to experiment with swinging. I have noticed the more I understand about swinging, the more defined hitting becomes for me. Like for instance (and I’m still not sure I understand this) the face closes with the swinger from a very open position via centrifugal force. The hitter is pushing hard with the right arm and actively ‘hitting’ with the hands, and the pivot. So it seems for the first time I am seeing the swinger really doesn’t do so much with the hands.

I’ve since gone on to read a few of my sources for hitting and swinging and I come back to this article. I do find it funny that Lag presents both as equals in this article but I’d say that isn’t so on this forum. :wink:

I wonder if the swinger is relying on C.F. so much for so many things to happen (speed, face alignment, etc) then is it fair to say the hitter relies more on presenting a flat left wrist into impact? Or is it just that the swinger is less ‘active’ in making that happen?

After investigating I think I am finally understanding why a swinger might hit further, with less effort. Not only is it a muscle vs C.F. issue, but also the hitter relies so heavily on saving that right arm, whereas I think the swinger is merrily spending it right down from the start of the downswing.

BUT in the end lag IS lag. I used to be such a HUGE fan of Vijay. And here is a swinger with the shaft of his driver nearly touching his right shoulder on the way down (He has so much lag there!) And in the other corner we have K.J. Choi, a hitter who almost starts his down swing with a bit of a cast move!

Even though I heard it a million times, I think I understand now why a swinger easily goes to the top -for a reason- and gets to parallel (or beyond). And why a hitter doesn’t seem to get much from going higher than shoulder length. (I personally have always preferred not going above the shoulder, but didn’t know why).

Maybe I’m covering too much ground for a single post on the subject, but some of these are thoughts I’ve had for a long time but some of them are starting to make more sense now. (It’s easy to repeat things you read, but understanding them is a whole different matter).

On that note I am flashing back to my summer with Mr.Pro and how he had so much trouble telling me if he was hitting a draw or a fade. As a bona fide swinger he would just say I’m going to the range and seeing what happens. This NOW in my mind is a result of a violent rotation that happens so late in the swing, and continues through the throughswing. A hitter may use rotation of the face as well and it may even happen just as late in the swing, but the difference is the hitter is presenting a square face, to-and-beyond impact. Never flipping over.

Just thoughts that your article made me look at Lag.

Ernie Els also starts his downswing with the same type move as K.J. Choi. In fact, many of the tour pros do. Is The Big Easy a swinger or hitter?

Take a look at how David Toms’ clubhead moves in the same way as K.J. Choi’s clubhead.

Here’s a link for some tour player’s swings (side and back view) in slow motion:

I think you are still mixing some of TGM hitting concepts with what Lag calls ABS hitting. ABS hitting is the pinnacle of golfing motion. Amongst the students here only Robbo and Cheese Donkey have reached something close (we dont know the latest about Parker and Aguille). On the tour Jim Furyk comes close to it but he still uses a more punch elbow position. For some of us the pinnacle may never be achievable but one can reach to something in between and ( with some manipulation of the plane line) still play reasonable golf. By the time you can call any one an ABS hitter, he will be a top tier ball striker. And he may still make a swing that falls short of an ABS hit.

What about TwoMaster? :smiley:

I personally have not seen TM’s swing recently to comment on how far he has undone the damage done by “look good” golf instruction.

Oh really? But all that I know really comes from Lag. And I can tell you one thing… I did not know this had changed but I can tell you for certain that it was VERY acceptable to be punching into impact. I have notes and emails with lag to prove it. If things have changed, that may very well be.

Choi hits. Or so I’ve heard. Ernie swings, or so I’m told. I never thought of Ernie as a caster, but Choi is certainly noted for it amongst greater minds than mine. My point was, hitting or swinging, it would seem lag is pretty important with either concept.

certainly a lot of stuff here to clean up…
any chance of 5 or so questions formatted in an orderly fashion I can address them without jumping from one subject to another?

I won’t have any trouble clearing things up…


For an ultra high handicapper shopper like myself it was impossible to find Golf Illustrated in October. I looked for it in every shop I was, but since I only frequent Walmart and some other food chain that I can’t recollect the name of right now - I never found the magazine.

Is it possible for you to post a PDF version of the article here on ABS?

I would almost think that the GI publisher would be OK with a special “print” of this article published here on ABS.

Prot I remember your thoughts from 2 yrs ago on the other forum. Stuff like punching the midget in the face etc. While I can not speak for Lag I think his thinking into the ABS hitting has solidified as compared to that time. I think at that time he had recently changed his lies to 6 degrees flat and that is at the core of the ABS hitting. Without that getting this deep may be trouble. Also, at that time he was still keeping things mild not to stirr the hosts.
I think we do need a thread about ABS “Hitting VS Swinging” because I believe the GI article itself was aimed at the general golfing public and way basic for the chronics here (may be there is one somewhere here).