Lag sets up to the ball with his right hip turned back which straightens his right leg but that’s a whole different story.
If you look at his knees at impact you’ll see that they’re bent quite a bit.
I think so, what George Knudson describes as ‘hitting out of your right hip pocket’ is similar in intention I think.
Thanks Lag for taking the time for some quick adjustment advice.
But from what I researched about lie angles the past few nights is sort of clouding me with live affirmation. Common knowledge says lie angles too upright will PULL balls and too flat will PUSH. This is because too upright and heel will dig into turf, closing clubface a tad and pull shots, too flat the toe will be digging in a tad more and opening face. Makes sense. Right?
That is what I experienced. I tended to pull “standard lie” irons I used and my new ones, thinking back past two weeks, were even more pull worthy (found out they were set to 1* UP). So going real flat with same irons and now almost all shots were major pushes because I was getting used to the upright gear and then drastically changed.
But you are saying it has nothing to do with heel/toe digging into turf but rather all the angles/path/etc I was starting to get used too (wrongly so) and I started to adjust my alignment to that over time (and actually a bit subconsciously)? Now I am forced to swing better so what I thought was proper alignment might have been just compensation?
I am actually excited about change for the better but frustrated at same time I purposely set myself back. I need to learn how to come in flatter. This was confirmed when I was taking full practice swing in my garage, lost focus and struck the bare floor. I looked at club to see what kind of damage I did and the scuff mark was towards to toe, not under sweetspot. If I had been getting lie fitted off marking board, they would bend my irons to be more upright…
(If Obama comes through and I get a good size tax rebate I will start my ABS journey)
It’s not uncommon for a player going into flat gear to start coming more OTT… because there is a fear that they can’t make good contact from a shallower entry… the flatter lie angles still will inhibit the ball going hard left…
But this is why flat lie angles need to be incorporated with matching compatible technique so you can fully take advantage of what flat lie angles have to offer within a hitting protocol… and I teach students how to do this.
Is it possible that someone who tried to learn how to swing from Five Lessons (shallow plane) could have suffered a consistent pull because the lie angle of his clubs were too upright?
It’s funny. I had this nice little pull that was so frustrating, so, naturally, since others perpetuated to me the myth that my initial ball direction represented the swing plane I figured I must be coming OTT. This prompted last summer’s YouTube inquest that started with my random clicking on who appeared to me to be a sloppily dressed portly hobo hitting golf balls in a field (Mike Maves). I watched all his superb videos and bought his book, making a lot of progress in understanding a little bit more about the basics of a golf swing.
My next random link was to the website of everyone’s favorite slightly OCD, South African charlatan TGMer–Jeff Mann. I have to credit him with helping me to begin to understand the biomechanic complexity of the golf swing, but, of course, none of his ‘ideas’ are actual his–they are regurgitated. One of his “review papers” links to John’s swing on YouTube–and from that link I found this forum. I have read the amusing and epic interactions Jeff Mann has had with the members of this board.
So, ironically, I guess I have upright clubs to credit for my finding this forum. I find it fascinating that my journey had led me to some of the internets underground golfing legends–sevam1 and Jeff Mann!
What kind of practice commitments is required for good progress in the modules? I work between 60 and 70 hours a week and have a little one on the way in the fall–but I love the feeling of hitting a ball purely and the chance to play such a challenging game with some sense of control of the ball is too good pass up.
Absolutely
You could get a lot of work done in 15 minutes a day if you are religious about it. Over weeks, months, things can really start to change. Lots of reps are good, but so is time itself. The brain needs time to process biomechanical changes in the body.
Dedication and patience will prosper.
Step one complete. Purchased: one set 3 - PW 1965 Wilson Staff Fluid Feel irons. Very excited…
I think I will flatten the lies and humble myself before asking for help/registering for the modules. If ever there were a time in my marriage to play the ‘you had a horse for three years’ card, it is now. I just don’t want to slam the card down on the table in front if her pregnant face, you know?
Module work means more time at home and less time at the driving range… so you can use that card also 
Since starting the modules I’ve saved between 50 and 100 Euros per month on the golf lessons I used to take.
Sometimes when I get home from work I’m a little stressed. 30 minutes of module work soon leaves me feeling relaxed, and a much better husband and father. 
A rat question for a diagnosis…or a Laganosis.
Went from Apex 3’s as a swinger with ball contact dead nuts center- as indicated by the white ball. Now since going 3* down from standard and hitting, the “center” has moved about 1/4 to 1/2 inch toward the hosel- as indicated by the red ball. Great contact at this new location, just wondering if the geometry is correct. Have to excuse the perspective a little as I’m still getting used to this new paint program. Not my actual club…just a picture of one. 
Does anyone know how Hogan and friends started flattening their lie angles?
Standard lie angles were a lot flatter in the past than they are now. Drivers easily 10 to 15 degrees. With today’s longer shafts, they should be even flatter, not more upright. I have no idea what they are thinking… other than they have no idea what they are doing.
In the past, there were not a lot of tall players dominating the ball striking. George Archer was an exception at 6-4. Interesting that he had more knee bend than about anyone I have ever seen. He understood the advantages of getting down low into the shot… lowering COG and flatter entry.
In baseball, batters swings are very flat… they push and pull the ball because of the timing of striking a moving ball. If they swing too early, they can foul it left, likewise, if the connect but swing to late they can hit it right.
However, if the baseball was on a tee, and they aligned themselves to hit straight over second base, they would have a very hard time hitting a ball over to the third baseman…or the first baseman for that matter. Their concern would be more about trajectory if they hit high or low on the baseball. Hitting left and right becomes very difficult when you are swinging on a more horizontal plane… assuming you are hitting a stationary object off a tee of sorts.
The more upright your gear, the more you bring in the blue lines as possibilities.
The flatter, the more you move toward toward the red lines.
Very difficult to hit a hard pull from a flat lie angle. Very easy from an upright one.
What went wrong if you do hit a hard pull with flat gear?
You would find with an OTT pull move with flat clubs, your hands would be higher at impact and the toe would hit the ground first…this normally has an opening effect on the clubface and the ball would normally go a bit shorter and to the right (somewhere near the Father and little leaguer in blue)…between the right red arrow and the far right blue arrow
On another note from yesterday
I just got a set of old split sole MacGregors…the leading edge is sharp like a knife…I bent them down like crazy so they are the flattest clubs I have…and they are maybe a half inch shorter than my regular clubs
I haven’t hit a shot since Vegas 2 months ago and the classic club event but I couldn’t resist hitting a few on the range yesterday to see how they went.
Well they are the most difficult set of irons I have ever had to hit the ball with!!!
That would make people run for the hills in this day and age but I loved it-- I decided right then and there they will be my practice set.
Because of the sharp leading edge and the really flat lie angles-- the shot is pretty ordinary is not swung correctly at…My first 9 irons were a bit steep and chunky…so I got the feedback to fix that in a hurry…My 5 irons were incredibly hard to strike properly with the extra flat lie…ball was being mishit and peeling right…that took a few balls to straighten up a little but still some work to do there
It was beautiful------ Finally!!!.. a set of clubs that are going to train my swing even better because of the feedback provided
Hallelujah!!! I’m not the only one that thinks the S-S’s are tough to hit!!!
I have a set with the “1” shafts. They look fantastic, but every time I put them in the bag they come out when I get home! I just thought they were a bad fit for me, but now you have me thinking that they may be as you say a great “training set”. And they are some heavy/stiff sob’s!
robbo
Sorry to rehash something that may have been covered elsewhere, but I thought I remembered reading somewhere that the 1960’s DynaPower stock shafts were stiff enough for our purposes. Is this true?
I finally got my new playing set flattened a couple days ago. I went 3* to start with. It is definitely an improvement in ballflight, but as lag mentioned somewhere in this thread it did push me OTT temporarily. Gotta love video, though, as I found the problem and think I have it all straightened out. Like some of the other guys here, I convinced my dad to unload a couple older sets taking up space and we picked up our own machine. We had one a while back that rarely got used, but it sure is nice to have one so you don’t have to explain to the employees exactly why you’re going so flat. I for one want to keep that little secret to myself. 
The Dynas with the red bands on the shafts are the stiff ones.
Looked a little more closely and the shafts are Pro Staff R (1965)–not sure if they have a red band but I’ll look. Looks like I’ll be learning introductory club making in the near future to put in some stiffer shafts. Any recommendations in terms of good learning resources?