Ok, I dropped the Hogans with the fitter today to go 4 degrees flat (they are about 1 degree upright at the moment, so I suppose that’s 3 degree from standard). I’m taking baby steps I know but I’m only on module 2 and really just want to know/feel what hitting flat is like. Hopefully it will improve my striking consistency and go some way to resolving that nasty pull I have with anything from 120 metres (130 yards) out, although I suspect module 3 will fix that.
They won’t be ready for a day or two…should I call the fitter up and tell him to go flatter?
They’d feel upright to me
Go flatter and say goodbye to the left of the golf course
Joins in chanting
" flatter flatter flatter flatter"
Since taking up ABS…shockingly, I even don’t mind my women flatter! (go 5* flat - flatter! flatter! flatter!)
Received a call this morning, the clubs were ready, I hadn’t had a chance to talk to them about going as flat as Lag.
This is the outcome:
Iron Loft Lie Difference vs Lag
3 22 55.5 +2.5
4 26 56 +2
5 29 56.5 +1.5
6 33 57 +1
7 36 57.5 +1.5
8 40 58 +1
9 44 58.5 +1.5
PW 49 59 +1
SW 57 64 -2
It only cost me $20 for 9 clubs so I’m happy for now and it will cost me next to nothing to go the rest of the way in a month or two…
Took my clubs in on Friday to get them bent 5* flat and to have the lofts adjusted. The guy didn’t flinch as soon as he saw they were forged clubs. Said I could pick them up on Sunday. I also asked if he’d measure the swing weights and raw weight.
When I went in on Sunday, he wasn’t quite done and offered me back to the work area. He mentioned that he loved working with the older clubs and it reminded him how great the quality control used to be. (It’s a matched set 3-E of 1980’s Hogan Directors.) He also mentioned how sad it is to see Callaway letting such a good brand die. He also confirmed what Lag said about the Vector 3 shafts being a bit stiffer than today’s R flex shafts which I was happy to hear.
I have pretty good specs here if anyone is interested: spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= … 5a0E&hl=en
I wish I could say that I took them to the range and was pleasantly surprised with the change. While the flatness didn’t feel as awkward as I thought it would (it actually felt very natural), there’s still something off with my swing and I only hit a few balls straight ahead. Everything was a huge push-slice, or when I tried very hard to square the face, I would hit it straight right. I got home and did some bag work and think I realized what I could try differently next time. It’s probably going to take a few more times at the range before I get it worked out but I’m looking forward to it!
I’m 6’4" tall and play with irons that are 5* flat from standard. I do have short legs and a long torso for somebody my height. But the flat lies have forced me to get more knee flex at address, but more important more knee flex on the downswing which works great with Module 2.
While Module 2 does allow the golfer to use the ground to push off of, I also think it more effectively lowers the golfer’s center of gravity in order to get the clubhead to the ball. When you don’t use M2 and get the CoG properly lowered, IMO I think you are like to start tilting the head/neck downwards in order to lower the CoG, but I don’t think that’s the best way to do it. Having flat irons certainly reinforces M2 for me.
I lost my post I was writing…
- I’m just under 6 feet tall
- Went to range after doing my M1 bag reps.
- Slightly stronger grip. Rib is in the first joint of my left pinky.
- Focus on 4:30 line, pitch elbow
- WIder stance, almost a squat. Imagine playing defense in basketball.
- Hands low and close, toe of the club slightly in the air.
- Almost felt like I was jumping up into my finish
Much better flight! Mostly straight shots! Don’t know if I’m doing everything right, but at least the ball was going toward where I was aiming! Worked well with all the clubs too!
- Bought some high density lead tape at GolfSmith on the way home and added four 2" strips to my 3 iron. Going to do my bag work with it until I get used to it. Not sure how I’m going to get my D3 PW to E4!
(cliff notes on bottom)
I had been playing a set of G40 irons, 6* flat… sold them to get a set of '60 DynaPower irons.
Bent the DynaPowers 4* flat (the 5i was 37.25", so they were 3/4" short from standard, effectively 5.5* flat I suppose)… the 8i and 2i snapped mid swing. Sold on ebay.
I just picked up a set of '69 DynaPowers with S300 shafts, but I haven’t had them bent yet. I went to the range this morning and I will NEVER be able to play upright clubs again, lol.
I was making very solid contact and I couldn’t fade the ball to save my life… Hook, pull, “power” draw, etc. Hardly ever straight and never right.
It’s amazing how consistent I’ve become with the flatter, shorter, heavier irons. I can move the ball either way with some minor setup changes and hit the straight ball darn near on command. But at least I was hitting the 4:30 line pretty well judging by the ball flight… “so I’ve got that going for me” lol.
I’m waiting for one more club for the set of '69s (the guy was missing the 3i and found it). Once it gets here I’m having them cut shorter (37.25" 5i… I LOVED that setup!), having the swingweights bumped up while the shafts are off (lead powder should work), and having them bent 5* flat. Oh, and Tacki-Mac Itomic grips put on. If you haven’t tried them yet, do it… you’ll thank me!
Bend your irons flat or suffer the consequences.
I just dropped off the '69 Dyna-Powers to get bent flat. 4* this time as I’m going to play the 5i at either 37 1/2" or 37 1/4"… I haven’t decided yet, but the effective lie will end up about 5* flat. I went to the same guy I brought my last set to… again he was all twisted about it.
He proceeded to measure my wrist-to-floor length with a yard stick and pull out the Ping static fitting chart.
Pounding his finger on the black line he says: “See! You should be standard, or even 1% upright!” “I don’t mean to embarass you, but going that flat is crazy!”
So again I go through the explanations, theories, etc. He didn’t believe that Hogan had his irons flat, blah, blah, blah.
He’s a nice guy and I like the conversation, but this time I could tell he was getting flustered, lol. He walks in the back and then returns; “Hey, do you want your own machine?”
He brings me to the back and shows me a second loft/lie machine he as (with a stand). He’s selling it all to me for $250. A STEAL!
He got so fed up with our conversation that he’s selling me my own machine so I’ll leave him alone, BWAHHHHH HAHAHAHAH!! I love it!
Oh, that’s just classic! Hilarious.
Great to hear you are getting your own machine!
Nice job with that…
Now you won’t have to look at the silly ping loft and lie chart!
That is just perfect. I’m looking for a l/l machine right now but alas, all I can find are new ones. No extras in the back of someone’s shop at a bargain price for me.
If you don’t mind some scuff marks on an old set… you can do wonders with a vice, a hammer, a blow torch, and a protractor.
Golfworks also sells a vice that will hold clubs. It is about 90 dollar. Bending bars cost $40 if I remember correctly.
Ran into Lee Trevino at the driving range this evening. He was working with one of his son’s and a couple of others. I had to say hello and I couldn’t resist asking him if he played flat gear back in the day. He smiled and said “of course!”. I asked how flat and he said 3 degrees. Not sure if that was against “then year” standards or not.
Too cool Robbo! I think in his book he says that most players would benefit from flattening the lies on their short irons but making them slightly more upright for their long irons. So interesting to here he was gave that figure of 3 degrees.
The forces of CF increase with velocity and longer clubs which of course tend to want to put the shaft and left arm inline (DTL view) essentially raising the shaft upward or into a more upright situation.
This of course does not have to happen, even with a driver, and the advantages of flat lie geometry are still in play with the longer clubs if not more so.
My feeling is that the way Trevino swung the club out to the right with steeper shoulders rather than a flat torso rotation through impact, he would be a bit more inclined to have his gear set up exactly like he describes.
The most effective way to keep the shaft flat going through impact is by rotating the torso flat also. Trying to cut the hands left post impact with steep shoulders is much more difficult to achieve.
Trevino had the best approach to this by rotating his plane line out to the right.