And if he got on internet car forums about that specific model of car and made that claim then there should be an objectively verifiable way to measure the compression in the gear box so everyone knows whether or not compression was being lost. It wouldn’t make any sense for the mechanic to make that claim if, in fact, it was not being lost. If it was then everyone with that model of car could benefit from warranty claims to the manufacturer of the vehicle or the gear box and the engineers of the car could examine their design to see why that was the issue. If it wasn’t the issue then owners of the car would need to look elsewhere for their problem. And if the mechanic simply felt like compression in the gearbox was being lost, but it really wasn’t, then he might also look elsewhere to see what the root cause was since we now know, objectively, that what he thought the issue was wasn’t really happening.
There’s a reason doctors have x-rays, MRIs, and CT scans. They are able to see things they can’t see with the naked eye. There’s a reason they use thermometers to objectively report a temperature instead of putting the back of their hand on your forehead and saying what you feel like to them. There’s a reason they use a measurements device to check your weight and chart it and then use the same measuring device the next time and compare it to what it was before.
And golfers practice golf and some practice is profitable and some of it isn’t. There are 95 shooters who have practiced the same stuff for 35 years and they’re still shooting 95 because they keep enforcing bad machanics.
Hal Sutton on GEARS. Being that you are knowledgeable on this software what can we learn from Hal Sutton. My first look is his impact position is lead deflection, but mor than that what kinds of things is GEARS going to teach him to get back out on senior tour or shooting low numbers which is the ideal for all of us. Thanks.
Of course the shaft is in lead deflection. Why wouldn’t it be? It always is.
That capture is from 2014 based on the video description, right? Looking back at a handful of tournaments in 2014 it doesn’t look like he was playing very well. My first thought would be that I seriously don’t like his hand path in transition. With it being an old capture it doesn’t look like center of mass points are on there, but to the eye it looks like a large move into his right side, a la Jimmy Ballard, and a lack of early recentering of his pressure and center of mass. This leads to sequencing issues and his pivot drags his hand path out instead of down. He’s incredibly steep, we’re talking neck plane or higher with the shaft, and if he has any chance he better be hitting a hard cut. But to make matters worse he has a severe lack of spine extension through the ball, again Ballardesque. Extension from the ankles, knees, and spine is a primary element of creating vertical forces for speed, to help pull up on the grip, and also to shallow the angle of attack. He’s already steep early so without late shallowing with right lateral bend and extension he undoubtedly has a severe leftward swing direction which requires that steeply downward angle of attack to shift the path right enough to keep the ball on the course. But that complicates things because now his spin loft is very low due to hitting down too much and his balls are flying flat into greens.
I would certainly need more data to come to any concrete conclusions. I’d like club data and ball launch data over a number of shots so I could see some patterns, but based on that capture that’s what I’ve got. It would be very easy to clean up though. A little bit of pivot work and timing his CoM movement would immediately fix his hand path. That would give him more time on his downswing and he’d feel like he’d had forever and a day to line the club up for impact. He’d be shallower and he’d be able to hold more loft on the club. He’d increase compression of his shots from an improved AoA and his balls would launch straighter and higher.
I certainly wouldn’t call it a “gears analysis”. Gears is simply the vehicle the mechanics were captured with. The analysis is my own.
Here is a video of Hal Sutton discussing his swing and changes he’s been working on. It was posted in February of 2019. You can watch it for yourself, but he talks about getting back to his left side, getting the arms down before he rotates, and rotating less. He’s very clearly discussing being steep due to the sequencing of his rotation: Hal Sutton swing changes comeback PGA Tour Champions | Golf Channel
Here is a picture of his steep shaft in transition from the gears capture in 2014 accompanied with his near toe shank contact due to his excessively leftward path and poor sequencing. Accompanied are pictures from the 2019 video l discussing what he’d been working on. You can see his feel of getting his hands down earlier before rotating accompanied by his actual swing where the shaft is exiting his shoulder, not his neck and is several inches lower than the gears capture. Parallax is certainly at play, but it’s still abundantly clear what he’s doing and what he’s trying to do.
Ok, so someone answers your question seriously, and this is your response. What is your diagnosis of Sutton then? What does a genius ABS student prescribe for Hal?
I find it interesting Hals record of 2014 had to be googled bf your analysis. In sure if he had a stellar year that would have changed your opinion on what GEARS revealed.
In regards to GEARS revealing a steep transition as being a bad thing I would say your analysis is flawed. Just google OTT great players. The list is enormous of the great ball strikers working the hands OUT in transition on top of the backswing plane.
Ironically, we havent heard a peep out of Sutton competing since making this change with Chase Cooper. His playn days on tour havent resurfaced since that video tip.
When that video came out I called Ballard. His words that Hal was wrong dropping his hands and arms. Funny u also call his impact position a toe shank when Ballard teaches to capture with the toe of club.
All in all, GEARS has its place in the golfing world. We will have to agree to disagree on Hals fundamentals.
The reason I looked up when the capture was taken is because Hal Sutton is currently 64 years old. There’s a big difference between 56 and 64, Hal Sutton’s weight and physical condition has fluctuated over time, and you framed your question as getting him back to shooting low numbers on the Champions Tour. I don’t know how practical that may be for a 64 year old whereas a 56 year old still has some time left.
And I also think it’s entirely relevant how someone is playing. If a guy is out there on Tour beating ass with a steep transition then my first observation would be “man, that really doesn’t look good” and my second observation would be “but he’s winning, so why is it working?” And I would then examine it closer and see if I could come up with an answer. Because looking at goofy swings and why they work teaches you stuff. But when 2014 Hal Sutton is shooting +20 and finishing 70th and I see a shaft exiting between his neck and his chin from down the line and I see horrible pivot sequencing and I see a hand path working extremely out before down then I know that’s the first place I’d look to resolve ballflight issues.
As far as history and “over the top” players, over the top of what? Because an “over the top” player like Sam Snead still have his hands and club working down more than out, the lead arm is still in at P5, and the swing direction isn’t 8 degrees left. The hand path moves down more than out, the initial hand path direction is down, and Hal Sutton obviously realized that was an issue in 2019 and was working on it. But again, he’s 64 years old and was 61 in 2019. I think it’s safe to say his tournament playing days are behind him.
And I’m pretty comfortable saying that Jimmy Ballard isn’t teaching people to strike the ball on the toe.
And here is Jimmy Ballard discussing and demonstrating how to “spring the shaft” and transition the club. Pull whatever conclusions from that you’d like.
I didn’t make the observation, Ayersjj did. I just acknowledged that he was correct and that the shaft at impact would be exactly as one would expect it to be.
Sure, he’s talking about left arm supination and releasing the club instead of dragging it. The feel is “working the toe of the club” to square the face up, not striking the ball on the toe outside of the center of the face.
I think what I do differently is I try to maintain my address position throughout the swing bc I have been a Ballard student 35 years more upright backswing.
I am a firm believer in JE shaft flex orbit pull which imo is the key to any great striker of a golf ball.
This GEARS technology is interesting but always want a doctor that has done the surgery not just an xray
So are you not an ABS student? I’ve read through John’s posts about the golf swing for a long time and I think I have a pretty good grasp on what he believes and what he’s saying. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what he means by orbit pull. I’m interested to hear how you define or describe orbit pull or what it means exactly.
For sure, but John has been very detailed in lots of his posts over the years. I think I know what he’s talking about with the orbit pull discussion and I think it very similarly mirrors Mac’s CP vs CF release concepts. I think what Ayersjj is discussing as orbit pull, or somehow relating it to Ballard, is not what John is talking about. And if he’s not an ABS student it would make sense that he has a skewed perspective on orbit pull. Which is why I’m curious about what it means to him in his own words.
. Lol
are we back to this now?
