But it definitely helps to understand that they do travel inside and above the ball.
Yes, but why do you make the point that they travel above the ball–that seems obvious to me, but maybe not. The hands through impact then would be higher than what they were at address, I suspect. What feel do you have with the hands coming inside and above, at and through impact? What’s the opposite of higher hands–lower? and in relation to what?
I like your vinyl record/hammer imagery–makes sense. I read Clampett’s book “The Impact Zone,” …mind in the hands and all that. It rang true, but the more I ruminated on it, the more my swing got handsy. I began forcing the forward shaft lean. My mind ended up in my arms and hands, and my pivot, my core, went to sleep. So now I’m trying to focus only on making a good pivot. I obviously don’t know how to make one and sustain it, or I wouldn’t be asking such basic questions–lol.
I need to strip the swing down to its bare essentials and rebuild it–both physically and mentally. Lag’s philosophy has been an eye opener for me, but presently, I’m b/w swinging and hitting and not very well at either of them. Coupled with going flat, stiff and heavy with my irons, has added a new, but challenging dimension. All too much at once, I’m afraid. One I get the modules going, I’ll get on track.
I think it’s great that you’re focusing on your pivot and building the internal structure as that keeps everything driving through. I make the point about the hands traveling above and inside the ball purely because that’s what they do- it was in reference to them not being directed at the ball which is a problem for a lot of people developing their game. The hands don’t come in higher in an ideal world, particularly in the ABS/hitting model, as that would be them breaking out onto a different track on the record if you can picture that. And if you’re using flat clubs, high hands through impact would be even worse- flat clubs are part of eliminating that from happening. But I’m not a flat club expert, nor am I an ABS expert for that matter, I’m just sharing my own thoughts. Lag would be the man for clarifying those specifics for you.
I don’t know Clampett’s book, but I can understand what you’re saying about getting it all into your hands- it’s what a lot of TGM people end up doing. I’m not recommending that at all, just that it’s important to develop a relationship with the club so you can know where it is and where you are- heavy and stiff will go a long way to developing your senses in that regard. I don’t really like the mind in the hands thing because that does lead to the problems you stated, I’m referencing pushing out your awareness towards the club and clubface so they can become a part of your overall motion and that you can learn to know where it is in a similar way to how you know where the other parts of your body are while in motion. A martial arts friend of mine says he has equal dexterity and coordination in his arms and legs, that’s the kind of overall awareness I’m talking about.
I was thinking a little more about the mind in the hands idea and what’s funny about it is that the actual goal is the complete opposite of that. Most people who pick up a golf club have their minds in their hands, and that’s the problem. You’re goal should be to put your mind everywhere, in your legs, in your back, in your Dantien, in the clubface, in your feet etc., etc. This kind of body awareness then makes sense out of loading into your legs because you can feel and understand that the force in your hands comes from somewhere else. You don’t see any boxers standing around straight legged because their hands are in their legs, so to speak, or wherever it is they thrust from into a punch. Or their minds are in their legs, to compare it to that Clampett phrase.
That’s what makes the swing so interesting. You can put your mind in almost any bodypart–right ankle, inside left knee, top of the spine (C7), almost anywhere and get interesting results. When someone’s playing well they say, “I wasn’t thinking of anything, just swinging, thinking target…” Yes, but what were they feeling? Different feels for different days, b/c we wake up differently everyday–some days better than others. Success comes from minimizing thoughts on the course; should feels be minimized as well? It would be great to have a go-to feel everytime, I don’t know if it’s possible…
This really is about the overall learning process of the golf swing. Connection or what I often refer to as “cohesive body tension” is something we learn over time. If there is one secret to hitting repeatable golf shots over and over and over it is having a strong sense of identifiable cohesion within the body from address to finish. This cohesion must also be harmony with proper clubhead path, acceleration, lowpoint stability and so forth. And this is why I teach the golf swing in real time, full speed sections. No different than learning chords on a piano or guitar. They feel contorted, strange, difficult, almost impossible at first, but with lots of repetition, practice, and dedication they become more relaxed, comfortable, easy and manageable over time. Once the student goes through this process, then we have a very good chance of really connecting the dots in a very tangible way.
This is one of the reasons I am not initially an alignment teacher. 99% of golfers line up to the right because they have to.
Their golf swing dictates this. It’s not faulty eyesight. If you take a student and line them up correctly like a tour pro… it does not change their swing DNA. It’s the same swing… just that now they come OTT, pull the ball or slice the ball. They usually work their way back to the faulty alignment by the next time I see them… because their smart to do so. The have a warped gun barrel. The brain is great a making these compensations. I don’t blame their alignment.
I prefer to teach a proper biomechanical action first. Usually the students alignment will correct itself naturally over time.
If it doesn’t, it becomes a fairly quick and easy fix once their body has had enough practice making the correct movements.
One of the pros I am working with sent me a video recently complaining about loss of distance and an inconsistent shot pattern. I could see from a DTL view on video that he was simply aiming right… and making some unhealthy compensations to work the ball where HE THOUGHT IT SHOULD GO!. We made a simple mechanical adjustment, a ball position-alignment adjustment.
This was only possible because he had already done the work with drills and so forth so that the lightbulb could happen instantly. This might have appeared to be a quick fix, but it was 8 months in the making really.
because to me…that doesnt seem to work when you try to do this. vimeo.com/9083153
the second video doesnt seem like a ton of forward shaft lean. I see people all over talking about shaft lean but i dont see Ben having as much as everyone else says you should have. Although i must say…it is a TON of shaft flex involved in the 2nd video.
Hitting or swinging would have different objectives and protocols.
So it depends upon what you are trying to do… therefore determining which is right or wrong, or beneficial or counterproductive.
Lag’s video of Hogan and Module 3 is simply a thing of beauty…to watch the movements from that perspective is something to behold.
Starting to really get my noggin wrapped around saving R arm as so cleary shown in the video. To me, when the R wrist rolls early it is really a R arm detachment even though the arm remains tucked a little, or perhaps not even fully extended. In a way, it is almost like Norwoods “seal of the wrist” proclamation…in which I think he said something like if the wrist fails to hold, the hand basically gets detached from the arm…or something like that.
But if the hands fire properly…one can keep both R wrist bend and saved R arm at the same time. When I launch it properly the little pocket area of the R arm ( the place where a nurse will draw blood ) is skyward as if to catch some rain in the pocket. It’s a very unusual feel going up into PV5 by way of Mod 3…but is spot on when done properly.
Add on to above. Had one of those moments today that was another eye-opener. Don’t know that Lag will agree with this assessment but it concerns angled hinging. I have this notion that the entire purpose of being laid-off and, perhaps more importantly, open…is another way of saying and feeling that we are actually “laying the toe of the club off” and both serve to make that process easier.
I don’t use a pure drag load going back. Instead I roll the face open a tad so I can get the club deep behind me and to open the toe a touch. From there, the forearms lay the club off with the toe of the club now feeling even more laid off. If I can sustain that relationship and feel through the free ride, and fire properly- going into P4 it still feels like the toe is laid off. In other words, the toe has not rolled over.
What works for me with this notion, which is really a synergy with the toe of the club, is that I know immediately through the ball if the body stalls as the toe won’'t hold it’s laid off feel through P4. RR
I went home at lunch and hit a few( L wedges) in the yard while focusing on this image and what it said to me…it refocused/reinforced my mind on the inside of the right foot, both on the back and forward swings. Let the weight move into the inside of the right foot, to a certain edge, and ever so precariously fall back toward the target. I noticed a satisfying increase in solidarity and control.
I hope it holds up “through the bag.”
I am interested in what you others see, think , and feel when you look at these.
Do you feel the toe close at impact, like a door slamming shut, then feel the toe re-open again by P4, as if its pinned back by the post impact thrust?
Because I think thats what Lag does … Obviously, I stand to be corrected, but I think it requires a really vicious post impact thrust.(which I don’t possess… as yet)
Exactly… for me when the hands fire out of P3 the toe will be closing from it’s flat, laid-off and open toe position. So that at impact thru seperation, the toe movement is actually happening. However, as you state…that is followed by an immediate feel that the toe “re-opens”, “falls back”, “lags the heel”, or however one might describe it as it approaches P4 which I would think is a residual of keeping things moving in my efforts to keep swatting the snot out of it as long as I can.
In my post above I should have said…“with the toe of the club now feeling even more open”
Pivot thrust is not a problem for me…never has been. At a 120 pounds, what else can I use to maximize accelertion But seriously, a wise man told me years ago that due to my size no matter how I choose to move a club…my positions and application of power sources will have to be within firm limits as opposed to others who may be able to compensate faulty execution by way of muscular exertion overpowering the fault or position by way of a corrective action.
Notice what appears to be muscles contracting below Ben’s left armpit down along the ribs. I am guessing they are anterior serratus but don’t hold me to that. If they are indeed muscle, their prominence implies great development and exertion. I wonder what role this may play in the swing and how far beyond impact does their exertion persist in a hitting or swinging style? Any thoughts?
The muscles along the left side of the torso are extremely important in the golf swing. They power the rotation of torso, and if contracted properly, keep the shoulders flat or level going through impact to P4 and beyond. It’s a huge power move, but also an accuracy one because it sets you up to keep the shaft on plane if the arms and hands are working the correct protocols in unison.
In one of the later modules, I show how you can have the clubface both skyward at P3 and P4 and hit dead straight golf shots.
I call it “The magic trick” because it really appears to be impossible, but like most tricks, there is an explanation.
I think it was in the American Life book, by James Dobson, where he talks about Hogan installing a pull up bar over his hospital bed after the crash. I like this story for lots of reason, but it stuck with me from the perspective of which muscles he valued in the golf swing. It may have just been a general conditioning thing or maybe more specific to his thinking about the swing, either way it got me thinking about the roles of the muscles in the ‘pull up’ area. A pull up is not that dissimilar to a pull down in a lot of ways. The strength in those areas on both sides has a big effect on connection and your ability to keep the arms into/with the body during transition and acceleration. Also, as Lag pointed out, that left shoulder general area, whatever the muscles are, is a massive power source for that backhanded rip through impact. I don’t know enough to know anything about the leveling of the shoulders etc. but I can see how those muscles could pull the shoulders down. There definitely appears to be a contraction of those muscles that 1teebox mentioned, which suggests an downward/inward force being applied to the left arm during the downswing. Sergio talked about moving his left arm in towards and down the chest from the top, and Hogan also talked about not being able to fit a razor blade between his upper left arm and chest. Both of these images cause a contraction of the muscles visible in that photo. A lot, if not all of the power in the upper left side comes from retaining the rotation late- the anti spin out, as it were. I think Hogan did this quite naturally so his advice of spinning the hips from the top may well have been what he felt, but when you load down like he does in this photo, then you can pretty much go as hard as you like. The other thing that’s interesting about this discussion, and speaks to how misunderstanding can arise, is that the focus of the discussion is about the left side, but all this stuff happens while riding down on the right leg.
One of the other reasons I like this particular side by side is the rotation held in the left arm of the pitcher. It’s not just body rotation your saving on the way down. The body rotation is ultimately a servant of the goal, and in the particular lies the universal. In golfing terms, his glove is wide open, and if that arm was straightened a bit and carried to the top of a backswing, you’d be very Hoganesque.
Like you guys said, the 10,000 words are in the photos, and I think I’ll stop short of that number
Eagle, I like the sound of it… I think and feel that it’s great it would be cool to hear how it goes through the bag. De Vicenzo had that move mastered imo. Strong legs help, but I think it can be utilized to some degree regardless.
RR
But seriously, a wise man told me years ago that due to my size no matter how I choose to move a club…my positions and application of power sources will have to be within firm limits as opposed to others who may be able to compensate faulty execution by way of muscular exertion overpowering the fault or position by way of a corrective action.
RR