Where do you feel speed? I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately because so much of the game is about power sources. When it gets down to it, we’ll always go to the power source we trust, and all too often it’s the one we can see most clearly and is supposedly the most important one: the clubhead. BUT…
When I’m striking it the best and playing without fear, I feel speed in my upper torso/shoulder area- it feels that they’re just firing hard and and freely through impact almost as if they’re going faster than the club. When I’m hitting it like crap or playing with fear, it feels like fast hips and slow shoulders, with a fast flipping clubhead- all weak flash hand flip clubhead speed. Fear makes me guide it and when I guide it, I’m reluctant to leave the target line with my shoulders so they go up and in line with the target and the club flips. This is one of the reasons why it’s so beneficial to see the game in terms of propulsion rather than direction- if you’re afraid to leave the target line you’ll create no power, and ironically, no accuracy.
So overall I’d say these are my two sets of playing feelings during acceleration:
Strong/stable middle, fast top, driven/pressured club/clubhead is the best feeling for me in terms of what it produces.
Fast middle, slow top, fast clubhead is the worst feeling in terms of what it produces.
I’d say as a simple description, my swing feels the best when my through swing feels like a backswing on steroids.
I thought about starting a thread for swing thoughts or feelings that have worked- regardless of how clear or insane they might seem, it could be fun. A friend of mine growing up who was an 8 handicapper at best, once shot -2 on a day he had some serious bowl issues. His swing thought was ‘clenching his butt cheeks’ as he swung- purely for practical reasons. It’s actually got a lot of merit as a thought and does do some cool things for the lower half, though needless to say, he still hasn’t lived it down. Though he does have his -2 for comfort.
Anyway, they may not be definitive of the action, or technically correct, but it’s cool to hear what has worked and maybe why in your opinion. I was imagining a lucky bag of thoughts that people can share a thought that has worked or take one to use- kind of like the penny tray at the store.
Bom… Hell, how many would you like? I could write for years on that one. It would be like opening Pandora’s Box.
Here’s one for hitting with a flat, open, laid-off blade. Feels like club is a samurai sword and Anthony Hopkins is about to do a Silence of the Lambs laceration across the side of my R rib-cage with the tip of the sword ( toe of the club ) as it passes through P3.
Very nice description of shoulder feelings and them assuming a subordinate or superordinate role. RR
Very well put. I spent a good deal of time trying to create acceleration with lower body action and essentially always got the same result - fast hips and slow shoulders with the attendant flash flip of the hands. Not good for distance or accuracy. I play my best when I feel my left shoulder moving back and up behind my neck with my chest feeling as if it is facing the target at impact. Does not work as well for me if I try to accomplish the same thing by driving my right shoulder through - I must feel it in my left shoulder. My lower body does transfer weight to the left and clear some - but mostly I just feel it is stable and supporting my torso rotation. Of course my torso is not facing the target at impact - but I make that my intention.
Surprised this topic doesn’t generate more interest. Is the purpose of the topic to reveal “swing thoughts” or “feelings” as they may be related to emphasizing a certain segment of the body or certain part of the motion. Or, is it for describing overall feelings?
Here’s another related overall feel to the one I posted about yesterday.
'Ya know those old walking canes with the curved handles at the top. I hold the other end and see the curved portion not only as being the clubhead, but curved upward toward me. That curved area is filled with soap bubble solution.
Much like a child who waves a soap bubble toy through the air to create bubbles. My feeling is one which prevents creating any bubbles before the ball. So, the curved piece has to come in flat, and wide open in order to avoid air pressures crashing through the opening and creating bubbles.
It’s a funny visual seeing bubbles only from the ball through P4.
Great topic guys! Today I was doing some pitching practice with pitch elbow and swinging left. Once I stopped being afraid of leaving the target line I allowed my shoulders to pull the club left, thus squaring up the face that I was trying to hold open with my right hand. Sounds familiar??
My Hogan equalizer has never sounded this good before!
Yep…this thread is right up the Remarkable Ruminating Rodent’s alley. I’ll bet after a little while, he’ll be able to cut/ paste his posts, combine with some nice pics , and publish a supplement to Lag’s book. Possible chapter title: “Range Rat’s Reliable Feelings,Thoughts, and Images for Real Results”.
Here’ s a thought/ image that worked for me once about 16 years ago. I was on a trip with buddies to Florida. The practice putting green was crowded around the holes, so I placed two balls together and practiced hitting the ball into those two from various distances. Once the round started, I imagined I was simply putting to those balls instead of the hole. It worked pretty well…I was able to make 5 good putts for birdies on my last nine holes.
Things don’t work forever, but I think I’ll give that one another try.
I guess it’s all about feel in the long run. Had one yesterday that really caught my attention…it was like pre-impact hook and post-impact slice but had a more universal all-encompassing feel. Never quite felt this before and it was kind of startling. One of the coolest things I’ve experienced…and I’m pretty sure I was really tapping into the opposing forces in a more fluid , but powerful, way and which retains shaft flex. Doing a deliberate hook-slice works but always felt kind of staccato to me. This feel was more mosaic but with authority.
Once ready to fire, I had this feeling of tearing things apart in opposite directions: the ground, the body, and the path. From a birds eye view, my rotary action was counter-clockwise, and the hands/arms/club felt like a slight cut action across the ball/path in a clockwise aspect.
It was like going in two directions at the same time. The ball could not have gone any straighter.
Kinda like breaking a tree branch with the hands…grabbing both ends, the R hand will tend to rotate clockwise and the L hand will turn counter clockwise until finally…snap!
Later in the day…I was trying to pinpoint that feel and found one which captures the experience. I think somewhere in these threads someone mentioned a parting of the Red Sea…that works. Later, many things popped into the noggin that are also descriptive. The one I like most is the New Orleans Saints logo. The top half curves away in opposite directions revealing the tip of the spear. Great day of discovery. RR
Yep…some great sensations exploding all over the place…thanks Lag. Starting to really think that one of the keys is to create as many Symmetrical Opposing Forces within motion that we can. But that while in motion we may sense, or feel, that those forces are Asymmetrical…the feeling of being off-plane…but they’re not!
Even now at address prior to any movement away from the ball…I’m sensing that I’m in a position which would allow me, if I wanted, to keep the sternum in place…spread both R and L shoulders equally away from the center until the sternum would snap…much like breaking the tree branch. Same goes with the feet…they’re ready to go in both directions at the same time.
Got to thinking about baseballs. How are they made? They are made with two symmetrical figure-8 pieces of leather placed, and stiched, directly oppositional to each other…opposing symmetry.
Then I got to thinking about Hogan’s favorite beverage…Dr. Pepper. Their old logo used to have the numbers 10, 2, and 4. If we look at a clock…the numbers 10 and 2 are opposite one another and 4 is opposite of 8.
If we draw a clock and draw an arc between the points representing 10 and 2. And do the same with 4 and 8…it looks like a baseball…with it’s opposing symmetry.
Baseball…Dr. Pepper…symmetrical opposing forces…Ben Hogan: Americana at it’s best. RR
I wonder if Hogan is revealing his ‘through impact’ feelings/intentions to us here, with this right hand move…
When accompanied by an opposing left hand/forearm move, this could be similar to RR’s breaking the twig analogy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWLLPKiSMRk#t=1m26s
I’ve been swimming a lot over the last few months in rehabbing my neck/shoulder, and it’s been a pretty cool learning experience. The breast stroke is a great counter action to the golf posture and I’ve found some great relief and strength from working out and away from my chest area.
The reason I bring it up is because I’ve been playing around with various resistance exercises in the water to try to work the different muscles without overloading with weights etc. I figured out a cool one that speaks to the opposing forces in the golf swing, and really lets you see how the lower half works against the upper half.
It’s pretty simple, just get into the water to about mid to upper chest and set your upper arms at your sides and the lower arms perpendicular to your body/90 degrees to the upper arms, with palms facing- kind of like you’d imitate a robot. Flex down slightly until you’re resembling a golf posture and then just move your torso/hands back and through slowly and then pick up speed. You’ll probably raise onto the fronts of your feet as you increase acceleration, and as you really try to fire hard around you’ll notice that your feet actually skid down and away in the opposite direction. As you accelerate to the left your right foot skids back behind you, and vice versa. It’s a cool eye opener but also a good core strength/coordination exercise. Imagine you’re trying to make side to side waves coming out of your hands and traveling down the length of the pool to really get into a rhythm/groove.
The imagery of your pool exercize quickly helped me regain a refreshed sense of how the ground, ankles, lower legs, knees, thighs, and hips balance the effort occuring in the upper body. I have been struggling to orchestrate my lower and upper body swing effort, but your “outside the box” thinking bailed me out. Big Thanks.
I just can’t get over how important opposing forces are. On the surface it seems like a deluded concept from the galatic beyond when compared to other teachings and methodologies. Yet it’s application is so critical it stands on it’s own stellar beam of light.
Playing around with some opposed forces that are just mind boggling to me. Did one today which was a combination of EXTENDING Lag’s feeling of bowling with the R hand…and Mickelson’s over the shoulder shot where the ball goes backwards towards his trail foot. It occurred to me that MAYBE if the intention was, at the time of firing, to propel the ball backward with the hands, while using the pivot to propel the ball forward that those two combined actions would cancel each other out and keep the shaft load on plane.
Guess what…they did! Even better yet…with full loft and straight as it gets. Gosh…this stuff is goofy and brilliant at the same time…hey that’s opposed too. RR
Since this is a thread about Feelings - does any of you ever have the feeling of “leading the hosel into the ball” - doesnt matter if its a chip or a full swing. Sometimes when my sweetspot is a bit off, i just think of that - and voila. Anybody “shares my feelings”?
I guess thats not gonna happen - i know what a hosel, bounce, leading and trailing edges are, but after reading that statement over and over again, i just can´t “translate” it. But when doing it, i cant really feel back or front but i feel the hosel. And of course you would think, oh boy, here comes the 45° rocket, but it almost never happens…
Looking down from address the face comes out of the hosel at say, 12 o’clock, so 6 o’clock would be the back of it, and 9 o’clock would be the front of it- they’re just names for reference, they don’t actually make sense since the back can’t really be a quarter turn from the front but you get my drift…
Hogan talked about leading with the back of it which would have the bounce down and the face open if you can picture that(though I don’t like the term ‘open’ in that situation as it freaks people out- in my view it’s not really open, it’s actually neutral and where it needs to be to be used correctly) If you were to lead with the front, the leading edge would be down with the bounce up and the face prematurely closed in relation to the overall motion and it would be unable to be used correctly.
By the sounds of it your feeling is the right one.