# CP vs CF ....why not both?

Why are these two forces mutual exclusive?
Why not employ them both?
To me CP sounds like radial acceleration generated from the core muscles while CF force sounds like the longitudinal force generated by the club-arm unit
Are they not both in play during a full swing?

They are both in play, but you either have to use CF and go with it (straighten the arms out to right field and roll the face) or you have to use CP and fight CF (club releases low and left and the face rotation is held off). You can’t use CF and fight against it at the same time…that is contradictory.

Okay I think I get it
It helps when I think in terms of swinging to right field or hitting to left field
Rather than CP or CF
I agree both forces are on play in the physics point of view
One way of describing Two different Release patterns

CP and CF are Mac O’s terms for angled hinge and horizontal hinge types of releases, respectively. Basically different ways of responding to the right arm being pulled straight.

I don’t really like the CP vs CF terminology describing release.

CF typically refers to an object moving away from the center, while CP refers to moving toward the center during rotation of a center.

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For simplicity purposes, I like to use CP to describe how the shaft and club compress inward toward the body at transition.
Then CF to describe how the forces then change about half way down and start to pull away from us… the outward pull of CF… like spinning a rock on a string.

While Mac may have some technical reasoning based upon technical research in quantum physics, I am more interested in making sure no one here gets lost in translation.

So in answer… of course you can use both…
but if referring to releasing the club… the intentions between a dump and roll release and an orbit pull release which resists CF post impact… then no… you can’t do both.

You can’t throw a ball and hold onto it at the same time. You either keep it in your hand or you let go of it.

What’s the best way of describing these two releases?
Horizontal vs angular hinge?
Moe vs Hogan way?

viewtopic.php?f=211&t=19

Okay thanks
Read first few pages swinging vs hitting.
Agree swinging might feel good and powerful but it’s tough to have all the joint working freely especially under stress.

Particularly the longer shafted clubs are more difficult to swing for me anyway.
I see your point how hitting might be more accurate and less taxing on the body

I think it safe to say that once the CP load occurs on the backset, if we outpace the CF through the zone by getting behind us hard left…way left to where we were at address, there is then a distinct moment coming out of P3 when pressures appear in the hands as both forces are at work, but one of those is being harnessed by the command of the other defaulting to the hands as the shaft gets pinned. But only half way home.

Just sayin’ is all.

I get the swinging left vs swinging right field
Is that the difference between hitting and swinging?

A couple of things off the top of my head.

A hitter keeps the club face squared with his shoulders at ALL times from start to finish!

A swinger dumps or flips his hands at impact thus rolling the club face over resulting in the club face being closed from his shoulders.

Hitters do not pivot stall.

Swingers pivot stall to allow them to dump there hands and arms thru the hitting arena.

Hitters keeps the shaft on plane thru pre and post impact.

Swingers will go off plane post impact.

Yes, the cohesive tension with hitting is undeniable.

Somewhere Two has a video in which he is attempting to move a block of wood, it may have been a tee marker but I don’t recall now, but his two attempts are revealing. One attempt is with the toe, and the other attempt with the heel. Pretty enlightening if you ask me…heel heavy moves things as it is connected to our mass.

That’s as good analogy.
Would be nice to have that vid posted over here.

As Yul Brynner stated…“so let it be written, so let it be done.”

Okay thanks
That helps
Seems what you describing is a shut face method (hitting) keeping the face as square to the shoulders throughout the swing vs a open to closing clubface position method(swinging) where the shaft actively rotates as it is swung away from the body rather than with the body as with hitters

Oh… NO NO NO NO!!!

Not a shut face method… totally the opposite.
As open as possible… on the downswing… then closed up with a quick and fast level torso rotation and forearm rotation.

The face gets pinned back and stops from closing or flipping over by applying force to the clubshaft.

dlam,

I should have been more clearer. At impact and beyond, the club face should be squared with the shoulders as opposed to flipping it shut (hands crossing over each other). Before coming into impact or at p3, the club face needs to be open as much as it can before rotating hard with your torso and forearms. It should feel like the club face is facing the sky. Once you squared the club up at impact via torso and forearm rotation, the club face needs to stay inline or squared with the shoulders as you pivot thru without any pivot stall.

One way to think of it, is your hands should never outrace the left shoulder (if your a right hander) and your hands should feel like they never cross over each other.

Are you in the program?

I am afraid this is a bit too complicated for me at this time.
I will check back at a later date