CP vs CF ....why not both?

I like that video.
i think that probably why golfers that hit the hozel rockets have nothing wrong with the mechanical flow of the swing it’s the perception of ball placement.
whereas those who" swing the toe" (is there such a thing?) might never shank but cant get full effect of their swing.

I dont quite understand how having the club face extremely open to the swing arc can increase accuracy? Wouldn’t a face square to arc require zero manipulation coming into impact and be more consistant?

Having the face open requires the toe to travel further and faster than the hosel. To me this adds an element of timing to match the toe to the hosel speed just at the right time.

If you fire your forearms a fraction early your hooking, a fraction late your blocking.

Check out these images of hogan I found, his club face seems very square to the swing arc very early in the swing. bit blurry but you can work out where the face is.
hogan club face.jpg
hogan impact.jpg

Having a open face at p3, allows you to pivot as hard as you want without the fear of the ball going left. No more hooks or pulls.

Yes, if the pivot is stalling, good luck. :slight_smile:

If your firing your forearms hard anti clockwise whislt pivoting your hoping the toe outraces your pivot to square the face? if your toe doesnt outrace your pivot isnt it going to be open at impact?

I assume lag doesnt advocate a passive release? but an active forearm release?

If you look close at that pic of Hogan… the first one… what you think is the clubface is actually the back side of his upper arm… a slight shadow from his shirt. Look close.

Opening the face is about as fearful as opening a door. The hinges keep everything in order and connected.

I certainly is counter intuitive. Square to square makes sense… but doesn’t work very well.

If you bring the club in flat and open… this gives you the green light to active engage forearm rotation. This happens in unison with the rotation of the torso. The reason the clubface doesn’t flip over is because if you work your ground pressures properly, you can increase the acceleration of your torso rotation post impact… and this pins the face back and stops it from closing. You have to learn this sequence of events… but once you do… you can really own your golf swing. This way everything you do is held in place by muscular tension from your feet right to your hands. If you passively sling the club at the ball with little rotation… the timing elements become huge because there is now a disconnect from the rotation of the body and forearms. It just becomes dump and hope.

Even the guys who built the first proper ball striking machine understood the importance of clubface rotation and holding shaft flex, and playing persimmon! Notice how the machine is holding shaft flex. This is the way to do it.

Hogan gives it all away right here in this slow motion feel demonstration. If he wanted the clubface working square to the line, he sure wouldn’t be showing this stuff.

Few ever brought in a flatter more open face into P3 than Peter Senior in his prime. This is the holy grail of great ball striking, and few flushed a golf ball
better than Senior did.

Gary Player & Tom Kite…OPEN OPEN OPEN

Take it from me. U dont want to be square at p3. LEFT LEFT LEFT

Working my butt off to be OPEN OPEN OPEN


We posted this pic somewhere else and talked about it…
Hogan waggling the club…very cool pic showing his intention and feel of the clubface OPEN OPEN OPEN via forearm and wrist rotation

I want to swing to right field and use more CF
Is ABS for me? If not what is?

lots of practice balls and waking up each day hoping you can find the rhythm to force the club down from the top and line it up with dead hands correctly at impact…and then have the confidence and trust to just let the club fly away without a care in the world.
Not as easy a recipe for day in day feel and control…90% of the world’s best BALL STRIKERS were hitters as per what we teach here at ABS and there is a good reason for that

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Hit or swing… you have to learn the technique. Most golf instruction promotes swinging and this is where people get confused. They read Hogan, and then listened
to their local instructor or read magazines that promote swinging and end up very confused.

I can do both, and would never consider going back to swinging. I don’t play much these days, but when I do… I feel I can still go out and play quality golf at any time
and maybe even shoot a course record with zero practice. I could never have done that before while I was more entrenched in swinging. If you have time to play every day
and hit lots of balls… you can learn to time it. But that timing can disappear quickly because the objective to much of a swinging protocol is to NOT feel anything.
In other words… you are trying to relax into the shot and not interfere with CF.

As a hitter, you can learn to harness opposing forces that are very tangible. Nothing mysterious. You will feel the forces and pressures that you are creating.
It’s much easier to do something actively than to embrace passivity while swinging a golf club.

My idea is to have a CF release with a teed up driver or 3wood while keeping a CP release with all the other clubs
I agree that CP release is superior for accuracy but most everyone I play with has big metal head drivers and not playing with persimmon heads anymore
My arms feel less bunched up with releasing away from my body with the longer length clubs
Plus I am not trying to hit a green with a driver or 3wood usually it’s to 40 yard wide safe landing area on the fairway
So why not CF release ?

When you are on the course, use whatever works. If you can repeatably hit a 40 yard fairway with acceptable accuracy there is no issue with using any kind of release.
However, what if one has trouble hitting their drive straight? Then what?

Three quick reasons why driving the ball straight might be more difficult than it needs to be.

  1. Poorly designed club that is not consistent with the rest of the clubs in your bag in many ways.
  2. Difficulty repeating the golf swing you use with a driver.
  3. You’re playing a very tight golf course where suddenly these flaws become exposed.

Most golfers try to master three different swings. A driver swing, an iron swing and a putting stroke.
It is possible to set up your game so that you only have to master one swing, and one can do numerous things to
tie or link the dynamic set up of their gear and their swing into something much more progressively unifying. This can be very
beneficial in particular for a golfer who doesn’t get the chance to practice everyday.

It’s not a new concept.