This epic golf thread once hosted but then expelled from another golf site… has found it’s way here to ABS where we welcome the insights of two time Australian Masters Champion and 5 time tour winner Bradley Hughes. This is a great thread and read…we are open to continuing the discussion here for those interested.
advancedballstriking.com/Bradley … e/BHCL.htm
For anyone new to ABS, Bradley’s contributions here have been epic, particularly in the private student area of the ABS Forum.
Be sure to visit Bradley’s website at:
I only made it to page 6 tonight, but there is some good material in there to consider. I love having both lag and two at the same site as resources!
Nice, Two, read the whole thing. What’s wrong with those guys down there, can’t they stand success? Here’s one nugget I pulled from the catch. My golf notebook is coming along nicely.
Twomasters on transition and lag: I see lag being created by not forcing the club down but by feeling a passive transition (a la the gavity drop)… where the club stays up and is not being pulled down…. pulling reduces the lag angle between your left arm and the shaft that you create…
Two great golf threads have landed here… like “The City of Lost Children”.
But of course these children know exactly what they are doing.
I love this site. I just wish there were more hours in a day to work on this stuff and an faster way to heal the stupid blisters from hitting 4-600 a day (NO I won’t take it easy for a while ).
Thanks for transferring this over here. I am tempted to go create an account over on ISG and see how quickly I can get banned.
It’s a TGM site, and if you don’t agree with Homer’s gospel 100% you get exiled. I was once called “The Judas” of TGM.
In the private section of this forum I have a thread called “Advice for TGM Converts”. Being one of the original TGM experimental protege’s, I feel I can speak with some authority on TGM… both the good and the bad. There is a lot of stuff that is right… a ton of stuff that is senseless and useless, and a lot of stuff that is wrong and harmful. I am sorry, but the greatest golf book is not going to be written by a 15 handicapper based upon observation and speculation… no matter how “scientific” it might appear to be. The laws of physics haven’t been changing much in the last 4 billion years, and I do believe that science can explain a lot of things… such as why we should all be using heavier gear. f=ma p=mv Oddly enough there is an “m” in those equations that modern club designers seem to ignore… even with all the wind tunnel experiments and flight analyzers. Pulling out a laser scope sounds pretty scientific until you fixate it onto the wrong object and fly a ball 30 yards over a green. Do that one time and suddenly “feel” wins over technology.
TGM in reality only teaches swinging from a practical standpoint. The TGM hitting version is complete nonsense. But ironically, with all the 24 components and 144 variations combined with the essentials and imperatives, TGM boasts to cover all possible mechanically sound golf swings… except for Ben Hogan’s. So I have a bit of a problem with that… both then, now and tomorrow.
I posted 2 videos on my youtube channel over the weekend that I recently filmed… partly in response to what happened with the thread that I was involved in at that other forum…
The videos were to highlight and talk about the discussion that once was erupting there and give visual detail instead of just words…as for some words get lost in translation.
I think it summarizes reasonably well the argument for flatter heavier equipment and incorporates some swing ideals based on the advantages of using such equipment to help our improvement.
Funny that you posted those just now. I found them on youtube last night and really enjoyed them. Thanks for taking the time to make those.
Thanks for making and posting these videos for us.They provide solid explanations and strong visual reinforcement, exactly what I need.
Great Job !
Yes, viewing the physical action goes so much further then words alone for me.
I am really appreciating and enjoying these videos for all they have to offer.
Thanks much and looking forward to the sequel.
Nice videos Two. I like your thoughts on pulling and losing angles- how true. Do you ever feel that you are hitting with a club through the zone that is “shorter” in length than it was at address and that the full length isn’t sensed until going up the other side- around P4.
Nice vids Two, Thanks.
BUT… what you are explaining and demonstrating is a very shallow approach to impact. Hogan was never that much underplane with the clubhead, starting from the slot position down to impact. Is that just an exaggerated move on your part to ingrain this flattening of shaft at transition (a drill)?
Thanks for making those videos and posting, Two. They are very helpful. Loved the sound of you smacking that ball from your knees, and like Dani, look forward to the sequel.
I’ve been thinking about this also. I suspect that Hogan felt he did exactly what Bradley demonstrates in the video. However, because of his fast tempo the club has no chance of dropping as much because the downswing is pulling the club around to the ball.
In other words, is it fair to say that: the lazier the transition the more you can drop the club behind you?
Good call there IOZ and very true…Lag and myself always talk a lot about the swing being forces and pressures…so depending on how well the rest of your body functions and moves things can certainly look different and a huge reason why teaching people to stick the club in ‘a certain position’ is futile and causes more damage than good.
For display purposes you have to exaggerate it so people can see the difference.
For training purposes everyone here who has done modules knows- you have to feel like you are doing something multiiplied to the 10th to actually make a little change
No doubt Hogan was working the shaft under plane…
If you were to use the TGM flashlights pointed out from the butt end of the club, then you want those
flashlights climbing the wall… not at the plane line as TGM wrongly suggests. Hogan demonstrates it correctly here.
But for every action there is a countering action… or an opposing force and that is what we are teaching students here…
not just stick the club here or there. Few can handle this kind of load, but we teach you how to do it if you want to give it
a bit of effort and dedication. This stuff can all be learned like anything else.
That isn’t where shaft is pointed here. Not even close. You are guilty of 2d lines on 3d images and arbitrarily just put a line to match your point. If you could drawn a line accurately in this pic, His shaft (butt of club) is literally pointing at the target line a few feet ahead (in front) of ball from what can tell.
Same with the second pic really as butt is pointed right at the viewer and would hit a target line extended way behind ball. Two was demonstrating a very shallow head approach in vid yet as you can see hogan rode the plane down.
Hate to say it but I watched almost every vid of hogan last night and he basically does the Haney “Parallel Planes” thing on way down. From dtl you can see it. Any move hogan makes at transition, or right after, just is a side effect of that look in my opinion. “vapor trails” as you call them.
Sure parallel planes… which of course are not “on plane”
Most players, even guys on tour have the shaft much more vertical than Hogan. Hogan worked the club from flat, laid off and shallow and used active forearm rotation to bring it back on plane through the hitting zone. I’m not wrong about this.
Hogan was not the only guy who did this… Snead, Player, Trevino quickly come to mind. If you love TGM flashlight drills tracing the infinite plane line out to the horizon… and are sold on that… fine, but you won’t sell that on me. Been there done that… and a sure fire way to be an inconsistent ball striker. Passivity into impact is not going to be as reliable as a properly pressured entry that you can feel with the presence of holding shaft flex.
You can clearly see him dropping the shaft down behind him here…
[youtube]Ben Hogan dropping the club in the slot - YouTube
You can clearly see THE SHAFT dropping behind him here. It is a vapor trail of his lower body leading the downswing. He even explains that in the video! The is no conscious move by him to get that effect. “putting him in position to hit” he says.
Go in front of mirror and get to top of your backswing. Then initiate lower body like he shows and you will see the stretch will cause the same effect/look.