Who is Sevam1-Mike Maves?

Public Forum—Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking
1

I need some help. I stumbled on this guy’s youtube stuff by accident. I can’t get a high enough resolution or any slomo to see if his swing is doing what he says it is. And trying to keep up with the audio is like Moe on speed. All I can figure out is that he WILL eventually kill that dog and the cameraman tried to simultaneously electrocute and decapitate himself with a chainsaw. Is this what golf is coming to? Somebody like this trying to make himself into the Dalai Lama using the Holy Grail for a coffee mug? I did a yahoo search and got zero background and he says in there that he hasn’t played in 10 years. Does anyone know who this guy really is? Here is one of the links:

youtube.com/watch?v=TAw5WCGR … re=related

I’m probably the last person on Earth to hear about Moe Jr here, if so I take great pride but curiousity has the best of me.

2

Oh yes I have had the pleasure to see Mr maves hit balls in person and let me tell you he has the goods. His action is very clean,tight and produces some beautiful results from such a small swing. Mr Maves was showing me a few things about my swing and how to incorporate some of his ideas into my own swing. While helping me he hit a few shots that let me know he was of tour quality caliber, pretty much everything he hit ha ha. So to anwser your question yes he has some great ideas on the golf swing and I believe his love for heavy old clubs puts him in good company eh?

3

“I highly recommend Mike’s book “The Secret in the Dirt”. Not only is it informative, it is also a very pleasant
and enjoyable read. The fact that any book these days addresses concepts in ground pressures, footwork
and properly loading and releasing the club is refreshing.”

youtube.com/watch?v=8YtYU8968ks&feature=fvw

Lecoeurdevie,

The above is a post from Lag out of the “Instructional Books” topic.

robbo

4

I found my way to Lag from his site (haven’t really been back since). I think he’s been working with S Elkington lately.

5

Sevam’s site is where I found Lag.
Mike Maves’ book is a great read, and his videos are great “watches.” He is fresh, but old school in the best sense of the term. He’s entertaining, and helpful. He obviously knows a lot about the game and the swing, and can explain complex things concisely and simply. I wish he’d put more out there.

6

I also found Lag via Sevam 1’s site. I enjoyed his videos even with the annoying cameraman. The “Secret in the Dirt” is a good read and I particularly recommend the Chapters on Moe Norman and “Ringing the Bell”.

7

His videos are among the best there is out there :slight_smile: Love that dog and the dialogue with the camera man.

And if you use Firefox as browser you should get an add-on that enables you to download youtube clips. That way you will be able to see them in slowmo.

8

I haven’t met Mike in person, but we have communicated both by email and many times on the phone…
I think his stuff is solid… he has a very sound golf swing, and walks his talk. Good stuff. His book is excellent
and I highly recommend it.

9

Mike can flat out stripe the ball and has great knowledge about the swing. He’s currently teaching Steve Elkington with great results.

3JACK

10

From the little bit I’ve seen it seems like this guy has a decent move, but this whole thing about publishing and such while presenting ZERO qualifications leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I thought this was a ‘regulated’ business where if one were to advertise themselves as a qualified instructor and attempt to make a living as such he/she would have to have some sort of credentials as either a member of the PGA or some other professional organization. John and TM’s credentials are a matter of public record through the PGA Tour, the NCAA and many other sources which obviously qualifies them as world class players who have a massive amount of expertise which supercedes any need to have active status in the US PGA in order to give instruction. Hell my profile is still in the archive for the PGA/Nationwide Tour, European Tour, South African Tour, Hooters Tour, NCAA and WCC; that’s just what I can pull up through Google. I don’t have near the record TM has and I haven’t had active status in the PGA since 2002 so I would never advertise myself as an instructor and give lessons for money or publish without first reinstating my status in some way. Not my place or my job anymore. This Maves guy presents nothing. ‘I haven’t played in ten years’ he says and his only qualification for expertice is an unverifiable personal association with a mentally challenged player long since dead. Secondly, the title of his book is almost certainly copyright infringement upon Sports Illustrated and Simon & Schuster, the publisher of Five Lessons, if it isn’t I would be shocked. Call me bitter but if this is the direction the age of YouTube and Twitter is taking us I’ll stay behind Thank you very much. I just hope one uses more discriminating judgment when choosing a doctor or an attorney.

11

Chill out Dude!

9 out of 10 people can’t be wrong.

Mike is a good guy.

12

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

13

lecoeurdevie,

You make some good points… but as I might agree with some that you don’t have to be a top tier ball striker to teach the golf swing… IT CERTAINLY DOESN"T HURT!

TGM will hand you a diploma after sitting in a class for a week or two, with no player ability test. There are TGM Authorized instructors that play off a 15… I know this for a fact.

The PGA of America was created not to put guys on tour, but to support the games growing infrastructure. The PGA is needed and has it’s obviously important place in the game… and their instruction manual is geared towards the more basic needs of golfers in general. The PGA player ability test requires a pro to basically be a single digit player, nothing more.

With the tremendous growth of the game in the last 20 years, the PGA simply needed more members to support the game’s expansion, so they had to loosen their playability critera, to get more people into place to support the growth.

The overall goal of the PGA and the equipment manufactures has been to grow the popularity of the game… to make it easier to play, and to make it a more pleasant experience. Clubhouses are bigger and nicer, better food and amenities, big forgiving clubs, GPS devices and a wet bar in the cart… all that good stuff… most people like that, and find that to be important to them…

Now getting back to instruction… personally, I like the idea of working with a guy who can really play… or really could if he is an older gentleman. Personally, I would rather talk to a guy like Mike Maves, who is a deep thinker about the game, equipment, and the golf swing, and I can see by looking at his swing that he is a good player. I think he said he was played off scratch back when he was playing a lot… and it is quite possible that he may have been pro caliber tee to green… but maybe he couldn’t putt and chip good enough to get out on tour.

When I was growing up, there was a guy at my club that flushed it, and could easily go out and hit 16 greens and have the ball at the pin most of the day, and he was a 3 handicap. Simple couldn’t putt. You do not have to be a good putter to be a good ball striker. Two different games… a game within a game (putting)

When I was on tour… and I am sure TwoMasters would agree, that there were some pretty average golf swings out there, very amateur type swings, that would play just good enough to be out there… chipping and putting their brains out to be 100th on the money list… and sometimes these guys would even beat you if you had an off week.

There are plenty of 3 handicappers that give the mini tours a try, and some will even squeak through onto a secondary tour… and if they have a few bucks behind them… can play the role of “tour pro” for years if not decades.

So it really depends what you are looking for… different levels of instruction for different objectives and skill levels.

However…

This is Advanced Ball Striking! :sunglasses:

14

Except for the TGM stuff I couldn’t agree more. Of course the PGA is incredibly watered down and is forced to follow the money and 95% of the total amateur players in the United States will never break 90 or understand the basic dynamics of a proper golf swing. But no matter what level it may be at it is my belief that anyone who wants to make money as an instructor must provide proper credentials as either a fire tested tournament player or a member of the PGA. ‘Moe told me’ is NOT a verifiable credential. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t, only 2 people know and one is dead. Where has this guy been? I turned pro back at the end of '95 and I’ve never heard of him. Sufficed to say I haven’t played a lick since I went back to grad school in '03 but still if this guy has had all these treasured secrets for all these years that nobody else has then why the hell would he be selling insurance for 10 years in Toronto? More money there at the local Farmers agency than coaching tour players? C’mon… In your words John, Come and beat me and then we’ll talk. If you’ve never won anything and you ain’t no pro, ya got to prove it works before ya publish ‘The Secret’. Even Leadbetter played the European Tour for a while…

15

You have to be able to putt to play pro golf… even to be a decent amateur player requires that you can roll it on the greens a bit.

Putting has nothing to do with hitting a 1 iron.

It’s easy to give away 4 shots a round within 30 feet of the cup… and that’s 16 shots a week. There are a lot of fine strikers that can’t score a lick because of the flat stick.

I have seen guys on tour play an entire round and not miss inside 20 feet. If I did that yesterday playing Mare with Arnie, I shoot 61, not 70. No exaggeration. (I would add birdies on #1, #2, #4, #5, #11, #13, #18, and par putts on #3 and #17)

I played with Verplank in the Sunnehanna Am, when he was the worlds top Amateur, and he shot 66 hitting 8 greens.

Jay Sigel won the US Amateur back to back while he was an insurance salesman. I’d love to pick Jay’s brain about this game anytime.
As an amateur, he was far better than 99% of the pros at that time.

But getting back to Maves… he has a good golf swing… and I’m sure he’s a fine ball striker. I’ve seen a lot worse golf swings from guys writing golf books. But I don’t think he ever turned pro… he told me he didn’t feel he had the short game for it…

16

PGA qualifications mean little to me–been down that track. Most of the ball-striking I saw at the recent Australian Open I would not be happy with and teaching professionals vary widely. I feel if you wish to be an advanced ball striker, you have to seek someone who specializes in that, and that alone. Those who have seen Mike flush a ball report that he really flushes it. He is a thinker also and presents quite clearly. If he was getting results and improving students (which I have no idea if he is), he would be someone I’d consider seeking if Lag and Dart weren’t around.

17

Yeah, me too Steb… Australian PGA teacher of the year rubbish ex student here… :imp:

18

Hell with it, I’m going bowling. I love bowling, I never have to put my beer down.

19

:laughing:

My experience with PGA pros… Try to sell you the new driver and new irons, bend your irons upright to help you out.

I don’t want to see Mikes qualifications, i can tell he knows what he is talking about.

20

Certainly there is nothing WRONG with having qualifications…degrees, sheepskins, certifications, licenses, etc… even beauticians have them, and I wouldn’t let a brain surgeon get near me without them. Bt unfortunately, these qualifications do not GUARANTEE competency or integrity…they merely increase the odds of it(hopefully). Consider Bernie Madoff.

But having the qualifications can become an encumberance,baggage, trappings…that can lead to arrogance and narrow-minded groupthink…an impediment to fresh creative thought. And these individuals are not exempt form becoming self-promoting over-reaching charletans, that go to great lengths to censor new ideas. Look at how famous teaching pros, or those that want to be famous, “claim” and cling to students when the the student starts to show some success.

A positive example from the world of medicine is Barry Sears, who has no medical degree, but is doing leading research that may have implications that exceed what Dr. Alexander Fleming did with his penicillin discovery. But I suspect many physicians are not tuned in to his work, or ignore it because of it’s origin. So we will have a long delay before the benefit reaches us.

Artists and musicians frequently do not have degrees, but can produce fine work that moves us ,and many can teach what they do to capable students.

Many skilled people are hybrids/ blends…they gained skill on the “outside”, and then went on to further their knowledge and skills with formal training and then received qualifications. This can be the ideal situation. Michael DeBakey learned to sew as a child ay his mother’s feet, and went on to become the famous heart surgeon…travelling the world to perform his craft.

The worst is when people fake these degrees, or become imposters ( dressing and posing as policemen, doctors, etc) in order to prey on the unsuspecting. We all have seen examples of it.

We can all be taken for a fool. Mike does not seem like an imposter. He is unpretentious, but I suspect his knowledge and appreciation of the history of the game exceeds 99% of PGA certified people…and I speculate he can beat the great majority of club professionals. He certainly can make instruction clearer and more interesting than many.