US Open 2011

Public Forum—Concepts in Advanced Ball Striking
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I was there with my father as a kid… short right of the green when Watson did his magic. It really was something special… but I can’t express enough how treacherous the whole golf course was. I learned to play the game and got good enough to play in 3 US Amateurs and experience both sides of that treachery… successful and unsuccessful. Missing fairways and pitching out just like Hogan at Olympic.
Missing greens and hoping to just get the ball on the green and not make double. I used to get nervous just watching a US Open.

As players get better, you WOULD THINK the game would respond with MORE treachery not less.

If I hear “it’s good for the game” one more time… I think I will have to vomit.

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The only US Am I qualified for was Newport & I’m so glad it was that one. So cool, the membership wanted to put in a sprinkler system & the USGA said if they did they’d yank the event. My how times have changed. Even after I got bounced I stayed for the entire week (thanks mom) which I never did at a match play event. If I was just a spectator it would have been awesome, playing 4 rounds of a national championship on that track was beyond an honor. I wonder how badly they’ve ruined that one…

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Not to be a stickler but it was long left not short right. Every time I’ve ever played it we’ve put a tee in the green where the pin was & hit that shot. Almost everybody does it, there’s usually gouge marks & not a whole lot of grass. The only thing that made that shot difficult was the firmness of the green. Its not the slope or even the grass when its long but when the surface won’t let the ball check on such a short shot. It feels so short that you could almost nick the pin on the follow through because you’re about a foot above the hole (or tee in the green). It’s an interesting shot with an average view (ya right you can step off the green & shake hands with God there) & Watson no doubt at first was really pissed that a shot that good especially a 2 iron was in the junk. But that was the Open, where really good shots went to die.

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I meant that I was standing short right of the green when Watson hit the chip… that was my location … not his…
I was looking at him from about the 4:30 line… :sunglasses:

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I can’t take anyone seriously that uses this phrase unless you are from Compton!

Captain Chaos

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Somehow I feel better this morning knowing I am not alone in having enjoyed watching “The Congressional Classic” and contrats to Rory for taking the title in a landslide victory lap… I enjoyed watching him dominate all the “also rans”

Barkow wrote me this morning and said he had “given up on the USGA years ago, because I came to realize they are simply in
“Show Business” and that by making golf more entertaining, they can make it more profitable”. The square groove ruling keeps a few of the old die hards still in the coop with wool over their eyes, obviously making no difference.

Al also said the tournament played like a “Classic” not an “Open” but found it enjoyable watching Rory’s fine play with his beautiful golf swing.

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Yep…fun to watch. Wherever he is, I’m sure Bom has an ear-to-ear grin going…pretty :sunglasses:

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We don’t get much golf coverage here in Australia unless you subscribe, yet I found myself continually fast forwarding the Open like a porno to get to the good bits. That was Rory’s approaches, Sergio doing anything and Day for the Aussie up there. Maybe a bit of Jacobsen too because he’s weird. 20 hours recording watched in 3 hours

So if I, a totally obsessed golfer can only bear to watch a small bit, which sort of person is glued to the coverage? I know my less-obsessed golf buddies aren’t.

Something’s gone terribly wrong, or maybe I just have more interesting things to do now. ‘Golf Analysts’ say spectators want to see birdies but the best majors I’ve watched lately were Turnberry and Pebble Beach where the courses were eating players alive.

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Turnberry was an amazing tournament and a proper setup for a major championship, I’m still not over what they did to Pebble and doubt I ever will be. The fairway on 10 was harder than the cart path so shock of all shocks it was impossible to keep it out of the junk if not the beach & everyone made 5 or 6. I think 9 tee was the other side of 13 green & everybody still had wedge in. It’s supposed to be 5 iron in if you nut it. 17 green was a trampoline halfway to Osaka & the aiming tree on 18 had more flybys than Top Gun. Oh yeah 4 is officially a 3 par & 11, 13 & 15 may as well be. Other than that it was a classic.

The ‘Open’ ended yesterday but it may as well have been a thousand years ago. It means nothing, no part of the golf business or modern competition has any value personally or connection to what I have spent most of my life doing. There’s a community out there that understands this and embraces architecture, flow, sustainability, self-reliance, conservation, our place in history and beauty. That’s what I care about, way more than my own desire to compete. The hell with all this, why even bother watching major championships just to get pissed at the sight of fingerpaint graffiti & a Starbucks in the Sistine Chapel.

DONE

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Gotta agree with this, I didn’t see much of the open because you’d need to subscribe, or go to the pub (neither of these things are a problem for a scotsman, especially the last one) - however I spent sunday night on here, watching Mr Knudson on the Shell World of Golf and then Johnny Miller in the US Open (again). that was lovely golf to spectate on. However is young Mr McIllroy quite a refreshing champion? What a lovely freedom he has when he strikes the ball.

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My feeling is that Rory would have still won the event on a properly set up US Open track… but he would not have shot 16 under. Was it the greatest display of golf in the history of the US Open hands down? Unfortunately it is an unknown.

. If the fairway rough was actually US Open stuff, where you have to pitch out to the fairway more often than not… you would see more irons off tees and so forth. I saw him miss several fairways with irons off the tee… not just once. I saw him miss the green twice on Saturday from the middle of the fairway with a 7 or 8 iron. Big misses, not trickle offs. If the greenside rough was US Open stuff like the Watson photo I posted… it puts a chill down your spine when you are back in the fairway… and it’s really scary stuff when you are looking at the green with a 3 or 4 iron on a four par… something Rory was not properly offered in this event as what should have been US Open conditions. When you have that kind of treachery going on… it changes things. It puts you to the ultimate test both with your golf swing and inside your mind. Rory wasn’t properly tested if you are going to COMPARE it to past US Open championships.

According to the press, Rory topped Hogan’s record by 8 shots. That would suggest he could give Hogan a shot a side for 4 rounds under US Open conditions with Hogan in his prime years when he could putt too? Really? How about giving Tiger a shot a round under US Open conditions a 14 time major winner at his all time best?

Here is another factor to consider. Who was contending or putting pressure on him?
Going into Sunday, of the closest 18 guys behind him… you have three guys who have won one major? I mean they have to
hand out 4 trophies each year… so you have YE with 5 hybrids in his bag, Zack Johnson 13 shots back, and only one old Vet (Davis) who’s been complaining about the greens.

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Now as an example from the Sunday round I posted a while back, let’s not count major winners… let’s count Hall of Fame members. On the first page every guy has won a major. Five of the having won multiple majors. Second page you have Tom Watson and one of the greatest putters of all time Ben Crenshaw threatening.

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What I am saying is that THERE IS A DIFFERENCE here. And if you have ever played top competitive golf… this can be very intimidating. Can we say you might be a little more nervous even with an 8 shot lead with rough over you ankles, rock hard super fast greens, and a slew of hall of fame veterans breathing down your neck? I would think so.

In a properly set up major… triple bogey lurks on every hole. You could have a nine shot lead going into the backnine and it is still no cake walk. Rory was not faced with this kind of pressure. When he missed fairways, he could still land his approach onto the green AND EVEN STOP THE BALL! Are you kidding me? US OPEN?

This was NOT A PROPER US OPEN test.

Graham Mc Dowell quoted on Saturday.

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Is the former champion crying spilled milk? NO… he is simply stating the facts.

If the rough was grown out to US Open quality… then it doesn’t matter if it rains. Do you think rain has never fallen out of the sky during a US Open week in June? Nonsense. If the rough is grown out… and it gets wet… that compensates for the softer greens. It should be hard if not impossible to get a club through wet US Open rough.

The argument that it was hot the week before and the grass didn’t grow… is complete BS. Did the USGA ever consider this as a possibility? Why not grow it out really thick to make sure it is there… then cut it back some if they need too. Are they really that inexperienced hosting a national championship?

To sum up my thoughts here as to why Rory was not properly tested under US Open conditions.

The US Open should be the toughest test in golf for the following reasons.

  1. Extremely penal rough off the tee.
  2. Extremely penal rough around the greens.
  3. Long iron approach shots into par 4’s.
  4. Rock hard greens requiring a vast array of shot and trajectory shaping.
  5. Lightening fast putting surfaces that often see balls rolling off the greens if you are above the hole.
  6. Extremely difficult pin placements that DON’T funnel your shots toward the hole very often.
  7. World class competition including other hall of famers ready to take the crown from you gladly.
  8. Gear restrictions that require you to play the course the way it was intended by the architect.

I am only stating facts… and calling it like I see it based upon facts… not hype. While the golf industry is in a panic for a new crowned prince. I will say that what we have here is a fine young player in the modern age who has won three standard tour events on similar conditions that require far less skill and articulation than what was previously required to win a major championship, and that includes Augusta as well.

This was nothing more than a typical tour event with a hot player shooting the lights out and beating his contemporaries
into submission. A win to be proud of and a fine display of modern golf. However, this was not winning The US Open under US OPEN CONDITIONS!!!

The majority of the press at this point are uneducated and have no knowledge of what a proper US Open set up should be.
Here is a quote from one of the big golf sites covering golf.

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Only 20 players are under par in the US Open. REALLY?

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Interesting article here looking at the historical context of Rory’s performance in terms of its “dominance” over the field:

http://espn.go.com/espn/grantland/story/_/id/6680477/relative-dominance

Interesting for the statto’s amongst us at least :wink:

Cheers, Arnie

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Thanks for posting that article. Relative dominance is one way to look at it… but we simply did not see a golf course set up properly to host a US Open… In what way was this set up any different than a typical PGA Tour event? Maybe a little longer?
Forcing him only to hit a 7 iron from the fairway a couple times into 4 pars?

I think I am safe in speculating that Rory has the diversity of shotmaking that could win a proper US Open. Growing up in Ireland, he should have a real advantage over the typical touring pro who grew up playing off perfectly manicured courses in Scottsdale AZ. But I want to see that. I want to see him perform his magic on a proper US Open golf course. Not just high hard drives and approaches that hold the greens not just from the fairways, but from the rough as well. It’s the diversity of required shotmaking that is missing… not just for Rory but for everyone. The greats have all the shots… and they win majors because they are required to use them… under proper US Open pressure within the context of other Hall of Fame players breathing down their necks.

At least at The Masters he felt Tiger and Phil’s presence. We saw what happened there. But here at the Congressional Classic, who could he be worried about? Yang with his 5 hybrids? Westwood who hasn’t been able to bring one home either?
Snedeker who by his own admission can’t break 75 with a set of persimmon and blades? Davis who is complaining about the greens?

Personally I hope Rory wins the next ten majors in a row so the collective consciousness of the game might wake up and actually consider what has happened to the game of golf?

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This keeps getting better & better… I absolutely adore that sublime calculation that quantifies Louis whatever last year at the British as a more dominant win than Tiger’s '97 Masters. Forget medal play tournaments this is our new scoring system. Awesome.

No matter what a turd is a turd. A lot of majors are & always have been (I’ll know to feed the meter when the TM gets installed on Congressional Classic). Who remembers the '96 US Open? I do, Oakland Hills, former Ben Hogan monster, winner the immortal Steve Jones. That was another unwatchable tournament even though it was played on a good setup won by somebody who just like Rory hooked everything & rode a smoking hot putter to victory. The only thing worth watching in the entire event was DLIII 3 putting the 72nd from 15 ft to lose the tournament. That’s it & I care about each tournament equally.

Who cares…

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Ok… well, I am sure I sound like a broken record about the deterioration of the game of golf, it being dumbed down from equipment, the golf swings we see, and now even The Masters and The US Open. Probably because I know too much as a somewhat competent player myself… and one of the reasons competition doesn’t interest me so much these days, either playing myself or watching it at the games current highest levels. However, I do really enjoy playing golf and competing against a good golf course where I am tested properly throughout my bag…long irons included. I guess I can’t get over the fact that the golfing patrons attending events are OK with what is going on today. That the press is ok with it… announcers, former players, and the ruling body. Is it ignorance? Couldn’t care less? Have no prior knowledge or interest in the more complex and articulate qualities the game of golf can offer a player and fans? Was it really that long ago? I mean there are still people walking around the earth who saw Hogan and Nelson play in their primes. Certainly many have seen Nicklaus, Palmer and Player. Even newbies to the game have seen Tom Watson.

I know I know… it’s all about money… but does everything in life have to be about money? Even the games we play? Shouldn’t this be our sacred place away from the typical grind and pressures of life we all face?

I remember playing in Australia in a typical tour event where some of the events had only $100,000 total purse… let me say that again… total purse! Yet you had major champions from around the world grinding, tempers flaring, real competition for even a $20,000 first prize. It was still exciting… I mean even a measly 20K can make a difference to most people. There were guys sleeping in their panel wagons who couldn’t afford a room for the week. That’s pressure. Life changing stuff. These were guys that loved golf… at any cost, even their own. The cart was always behind the horse, not in front of it. In a way, everyone had a chance… both the long hitter and the short one. Big guys… little guys… even the fans could feel a connection to a 250 yard drive hit low down the right side then banked back into the fairway as the player would play a bit of terrain. That’s something they could do.

I still like hitting shots… working through the flow of a round…trying to string some quality shots together, feeling a momentum shift, attacking when I feel a confident, laying back a bit when I am not. Birdieing three in a row, grinding out a bogey that could have been a triple.

I’ll post another final round of a major here soon for some to enjoy. If you don’t remember who won… don’t look it up… and maybe you’ll find what a few of us are talking about. I think complete coverage of a Sunday is the way to “get it”
Highlight reels are just that… because the announcers know the outcome. I’ll get something up soon.

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All this is fine but I just can’t keep having the same discussion over & over. This whole debate is so reactionary & quite honestly after a yr & a half I’ve reached my limit for watching stupid greedy people do stupid greedy shit. I have to deal with quite enough of that in my own life & in the world at large. Golf is where I would like to go to experience something else, something better. I’m out of breath from bitching & everyone reading the diatribes are tired of it too I’d imagine… plus all this reactionary crap does is continue to feed the beast. As long as we keep paying attention to these fools we give them power. I’m done empowering the OEMs directly and indirectly thru the playing organizations & the USGA. As a single individual I choose a different path & no longer recognize them as valid to me. I’m off the tit & wandering around to see what else is there. I don’t purchase any equipment, shoes, bags, balls or apparel that has been made by conglomerate OEMs in the past ten yrs nor will I in the future. In fact my new mark on my Titleist Professionals & Maxfli HTs is blacking out the brand name totally with my Sharpie. No more Nike, Adidas, Titleist anything for me or my household, my son’s pissed I won’t buy him converse sneakers & I told him when he pays for them he can buy whatever he wants but I’m not supporting the Phil Knight trust fund anymore. That’s my choice as a consumer & I’m not preaching it to anyone else, but it’s the best way to stop crap; stop giving them our money.

So what does all this leave? Basic choice, we can continue to have the same reactionary arguments & continue to be hypocritical by feeding the beast, buying their garbage at top gouge dollar. Sooner or later all the old persimmons are going to run out & long before that every great old course is gonna be bulldozed & replaced by TPCs & condos. The only thing that’ll stop it is getting proactive & move forward & make it even better than it was. Watching Ben Hogan videos for another five years while everything gets even worse & boohooing all the way down the River Styx isn’t very appealing.

Learning from the past & doing hitting modules is all well & good but it doesn’t fix this. I thought all the energy here was about creating a platform & moving forward but if all anybody here cares about is the Phi of Iron Byron on a sideslope, power accumulator #4 & the lie angle of George Archer’s nine iron then I guess I was wrong. I thought it was about progress rather than regress. Everything changes, that’s inevitable. The question is how. Pining for the old days is insane, learning & changing the direction of the path is the mark of greatness, good & bad…

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Remember, Rory shot the lowest opening round ever at St Andrews (63) last July. Then put up a disheartening 80 in high winds the 2nd day only to bounce back and shoot two more rounds in the 60’s to finish -8 (T3rd). St Andrews could be considered a close proper US Open type course?

We will also see what he is made of in a month from now, coming off his win and headed to:
http://www.royalstgeorges.com/.

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lecoeurdevie,

We are doing some proactive things… TRGA, working on mapping out a plan to launch a persimmon and blades tour, teaching a proper golf swing with quality gear. We have dozens of persimmon players now that we didn’t two years ago. \agbay has put Mike Reese back to work in a big way… a master craftsman far beyond my skills in the shop… He smiles every time I show up there with a barrel of gear and a detailed instruction list of chores to retro fit… bringing back to life quality gear for higher minded golfers who are feeling the benefits and living this stuff. It’s infectious and happening. We have guys here hunting down balata winding machines, sources for compression molds and all kinds of exciting stuff. You would be surprised at the daily emails I get from all over the world from readers here with all kinds of ideas and suggestive roadmaps for change.

Once we get a few more ducks lined up… I’ll put out a cattle call for foot soldiers to tackle the mission face on as any revolution would. There is momentum, and it will happen.

The negativity I (we) feel from watching silly golf on TV is nothing but a motivator for many of us here … like a firecracker up the rear end. What golf needs is not a new star but a revolution.

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Think I’m kidding? think again… :sunglasses:

wireworld.com/huestis/produc … inder.html

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Budman - ref: Royal St Georges - at least until the last couple of weeks there were concerns that the dry spring had seen less than normal rough growth so we will have to wait and see. Who can forget Tiger losing his drive in the rough off the first tee there in 2003!? That week less than 30% of drives found the first fairway - this time round that fairway is 10-12 yards wider as a response :astonished: I am going this year and also to the Seniors Open the week after (hope to see Peter Senior amongst others) so it will be interesting to see how the course is playing.

I think that one of the wonderful things about the 4 majors concept historically is that at least 3 of the 4 had a defined personality (Masters, The Open, US Open) or even all 4 when the PGA was a matchplay event. The concept of graduated rough seems to me to be entirely sensible and appropriate for courses hosting tour events but not for a US Open where missing fairways and greens has always come with a severe penalty. Especially if it doesn’t graduate into anything that significant. I don’t want to watch golfers have to hit wedges back into the fairway every week from deep rough but once a year doesn’t sound unreasonable to stress test the games of the best in the world. Part of the problem seems to me to be competition between The Masters and the US Open for “entertainment” value and they have strayed onto each others territory in recent years with the introduction of rough at Augusta and the concept of graduated rough at the The US Open.

Leco - was Bobby Locke just someone who “hooked everything & rode a smoking hot putter to victory”? :wink:

Cheers, Arnie