Understanding Offset

Why have woods always had face progression. Not sure if I worded that correctly but why is the face in front of the center of the shaft in almost all woods?

Even in non offset irons ….the face of woods is clearly farther in front of the shaft than in irons.

The centre of gravity is still behind the shaft on a wood. Offset on an iron moves the GOG back to increase the shaft kick when it releases.

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I can totally see and feel the offset in the Haig Ultradyne II irons now.

Do these cheap Executives (by looking at the photo) have offset? I gather a bit but a lot less than the Haigs?

I’ve held and hit these. They have offset and are not great. I wouldn’t recommend them. Haigs are much better clubs

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This cast over the hosel trend must have been popular for half a decade. I think these are what I am looking for!

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I like some of the early First Flight irons which were designed by Toney Penna…
He started his own company after he left being the lead designer for MacGregor.

I have some MacGregor Split Soles from 1969 and a bunch of M85s etc from the 1950s. They do not have offset.

Yesterday I bought two sets of vintage MacGregors.

MacGregor: CF4000 Tourney MT2 (1961)
MacGregor: CF4000 Tourney PT1 (1959) :white_check_mark:

The MT2 to my surprise had much shorter shafts which I thought was strange considering they are around two years newer.

The PT1 have Propel 1 shafts that as Lag knows are heavy as heck. They are heavier than Green rocket shafts from what I can tell.

Anyways … the MT2 have no offset but the PT1 seem to have none in the 2-3-4 irons but some in the short irons. The opposite of what club manufactures try to do today.

Can someone tell me if my eyes are playing tricks on me. Clearly the hosels are huge so maybe it’s not offset if the leading edge is in line with the farthest left of the shaft (and the huge hosel distorts this).

The PT1 are the irons on the right. The last photo is just an M85 short iron that doesn’t have offset.

Those do appear to have some offset. This probably happened when a previous owner had the clubs adjusted by someone who didn’t know what they were doing. A lot of these sets get messed with over time.

It can all be corrected and offset removed without too much work.

I have a set of Titleist AP2 710 irons. They are forged and have “slight”offset. I’m having a great deal of difficulty finding a set of forged irons with no offset in decent condition. Despite the “slight” offset, do you recommend going through with having them bent flat? The offset in the 4 iron is .145 and the offset in the pitching wedge is .085. Thanks !!!

Most older blades won’t have any offset unless the lofts have been bent strong, which is often the case. But weaken the lofts back to original and the offset will disappear.

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I bought these from John Erickson in 6/23 and he set them up to ABS specs.

After some minor cosmetic work (new grips, buffing the heads and shafts, and re-painting the engravings), I look forward to hitting these when I recover from spinal fusion surgery.


Look great. What did you use to buff them up?

I soaked the heads in a 75/25 mix of white vinegar and lemon juice for 4 hours, then I took one of those brillo pads impregnated with soap and scrubbed each shaft and head. For a set that dates back as far as the late 60s, I agree with you that they came out looking almost brand new.


I soaked the heads in a 75/25 mixture of white vinegar and lemon juice for 4 hours, then took a Brillo pad that has the soap impregnated in it and rubbed the shafts and heads, then washed the soap off, then dried the heads and shafts. The pictures don’t really do them justice, because after the cleaning, each club looked a shade below mint condition.

I used finger nail polish to re-paint the engravings, then let it dry for an hour, then “dabbed” acetone on a rag and rubbed off the excess nail polish on each club, then let the clubs dry for another hour. The slight yellow color you see in the pictures is not rust; it was caused by the lighting when I took the pictures.

Just a couple comments. I bought a set of ‘The 985’ and the previous owner from the 1970s was a pro I think. What’s interesting is that the face size (hitting size) is around 20% larger than other vintage blades … especially those from the 1960s.

One thing I’ve noticed with these … is that the shorter irons have had offset bent into them … but it’s different than offset in game improvement irons. Usually squaring the clubface causes my hands to be pushed forward … these don’t.

Sole width and design will play a role in that.