Do you have any close up photos of your grip? Or do you have any thoughts on it? You talked a bit about strong or weak left hands, but I was wondering about your right hand or what your thoughts or feelings are/were about it?
My big epiphany came on the range at Royal Melbourne hitting balls between Greg Norman and Sandy Lyle. A true stereo assault on my ears that possibly only the finest of tube amps could ever emulate. There was a shaking of the ground also.
Once I heard that, I knew I was going to have to change the way I was thinking about striking a golf ball.
When I was just starting golf I had a strong left hand grip…I turned that into a weak left hand grip to improve…and then it really just became a neutral left hand grip
My right hand grip has never been strong…always neutral and maybe bordering on a hair weak
That’s what I meant by talking grip is that you can learn to play with any grip and still hit the shots…you earn your grip that you can end up using based on the other elements of your swing… that’s one part of the generic teaching people receive…“well sir, your grip is all messed up, we need to change that”…that often causes long lasting problems more so than keeping it how it was to begin with… people aim in a certain direction based on how they swing…people grip the club quite a lot of the time based on how they swing…change the swing to a more correct path and release and manner and only then can the grip and the alignment then come along for the ride…
I know you have seen some of these pics Bom… they are in time frame order
14 years old (in red )
then
15 years old (in brown)
then
17 years old (driving at St.Andrews)
then
21 years old (blue sweater sequence)
then
and 2 pic when I was approx 36 (flick wrist roll junk)…the almost 15 year later point after I went and had swing surgery 
I will post some other shots as I dig thru them and find corresponding ones…but as I look at these old (young) pictures and know what I know now, I would have NEVER changed anything about this swing if I knew what to look for in my swing at that stage…I knew nothing about what the swing was meant to look like, only what my feelings were, so when I was told something else by supposed experts of the swing and that I should be able to tighten my swing and improve I eventually went that route and altered things…you will see how different my swing looked as you can already tell from watching some of the videos on my website bradleyhughesgolf.com I purposely left the photos I hate off the site!!!
Not only did my swing deteriorate because of the messing with my swing by coaching…then in the next minute lighter equipment hit town…so throw the already “be careful with the swing attitude” from tuition and then throw in the lighter longer equipment…then I was really lost…
My entire game growing up was lock, load, whallop…then it became set, what next, flick with caution…then it became where the heck is the club, there is no way I can swing this with any force, so I will just swing in slow motion and hope I can time the thing correctly
Just great stuff. So many thoughts about this, but I wanted to post a photo I’d made of you as a 14 year old(funny) and DL3 as a tour star…
I chose Hogan instead for my side by side that I have on my wall at my office- Hey…DL3 is a gun and a top bloke but I gotta think higher than that 
Obviously it’s wood vs. iron which explains the slightly more forward position you’re in, but it’s classic stuff.
That’s so funny! I’d posted that right when you did, and the Hogan side by side is with an iron and even more ridiculous…
Top notch…
I will let you read on but what did you think about my thought that:
Once you find the correct path and sequence and rotation to your swing your grip will find you…in other words you earn your grip and your alignment based on how the rest functions…
this is very apparent amongst Lag’s students who start out with module 1…many of them eventually adjust their grip to match the different concept of impact they are now experiencing…not by being told to do it, they just instinctively make the change on their own accord
That’s why I cringe when I hear instructors changing people’s grips straight away. it’s a recipe for disaster…out of all the lessons I have given the past year or so I have changed only ONE person’s grip …because it was a complete disaster!!! all fingers…but that’s all…ONE… and they have for the majority (those that put in the effort) got better and drifted towards a more neutral grip as they progressed along by learning the correct path to impact and beyond…that takes care of a lot of factors in the swing…unfortunately many golf teachers work on the foolish things that they think make the swing tick, but are really only the cosmetics or make-up to what is really needed
Well, I brought up the grip because it’s not at all insignificant in my opinion, but like is said a lot around here, the ‘technically correct’ grip isn’t what I’m interested in. It’s more along the lines of what’s needed based on the motion…
I’ll be back on in a bit… I’ve apparently been designated to go pick up the chinese food… yet they deliver! Whatya gonna do…
Yeah it is certainly significant…but when we see the grips of Hogan V Langer V Bill Rodgers V Paul Azinger V Greg Norman V John Daly V Moe Norman V Trevino V Palmer then the entire grip thing gets blown away to some degree… I totally agree a good grip can help …no doubt…but good golf can be played without a V’s pointing near the shoulder grip…but it all depends on the motion as to how effective it is…
I think most people would be better advised to work on the correct motion of the swing path and such and this will alter the grip…you could have the greatest grip in the world but if you don’t know the correct motion or path then that grip is all for null
Bom…get me the mongolian beef with black bean sauce will you…#42…should be $9.95 with the coupon I have 
I can see why you didn’t like your swing when you were approx 36. In the last pictures (most noticeable in the right-hand image) your lower body is just going along for the ride with your upper body (arms/shoulders) powering the swing. I see virtually no hip pivot or leg drive…most all the power is coming from the upper body. Did you not realize that you no longer had much of a pivot, but instead an upper body/arms and handsy swing?
GoLow I had no idea…I was doing what I was told to be doing…I didn’t know any better visually because I was a feel player and not a tinkerer growing up, … I was told it looked great but boy it felt like crap and needed to be worked on day and night to try and keep in some sort of order.
I was shown it on a computer and lines were drawn and I accepted it as gospel because quite frankly I didn’t know about plane on plane all that stuff. I didn;'t care about it… the ball and my feelings told me all I needed to know early on.
My younger swing didn’t need much practice to keep in order. I did practice a lot but my practice was also more playing the course…I felt it, i did it and off we went to the races… the later swing became hours on the range with less feel and less on course play because I was still always trying to hone an action that I couldn’t get comfortable with except for a couple of weeks each year.
Ah yes…the big muscle swing…the fallacy of it in my opinion… that’s what I was taught…that’s what eventually happened… I lost my right foot slide a la Norman… I lost my knee flex…all I could think of was set, wait, hold, spin, pull, rotate big muscles…my entire bottom half was never discussed and it totally forgot it had a function to do… my younger swing was entirely based around my feet, legwork and hips…then abracadabra…GONE…that’s why you see none of those photos on my own website 
they are awful reminders for me, but worth talking about for the sake of maybe helping someone with a natural decent swing not go down that path themselves
While you are enjoying your chinese Bom…here’s one more pic for the night
1989 swing (left) and on the (right) a swing from 2002 – shaft has been coloured in yellow (sorry about the double frame video on the right)…it shouldn’t matter as what i am showing is very visible
whatcha see? and what does it mean to you?
Yep, if you don’t have a pivot drive through impact (and beyond) from the bottom-up you don’t have much of an engine…and a lose steering wheel.
You bet. I could never ‘fix’ my ‘strong’ grip, just couldn’t hold the club any other way and feel coordinated. Few thousand reps on the impact back and the grip soon settled into what it should be for my developing swing. Easy!
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Two, this is one of my favorite posts I’ve read on here and in a great thread as well. Thanks. It sort of reflects my own thinking a bit as I am just starting out now really.
Short story, I was at Golf Galaxy with a friend 6 months ago and we were just browsing the iron section. Along came the in-house PGA instructor and store being empty he offered a ‘free’ 15-minute lesson to both of us as my friend eluded that we were both beginners. I backed out of mine as I didn’t want some unknown messing with my head as I know I can figure this game out myself eventually, but my friend was ecstatic to go into the training area.
I watched as this guy recorded and started drawing lines on my friends video image and put it next to images of some tour pro’s he wanted him to look more like. Told him he had to make a more conscious effort to weight shift more. Had him weaken his grip a lot so thumb was almost on top. And most cringing was told him he had to start focusing on releasing the club by purposely rolling his hands BEFORE impact. My friend was hooked by his seeming high knowledge and bought two more lessons. A few weeks later I laughed at myself as he tried to make all that work. But I am curious if it helps him at all so I didn’t say anything.
Anyway, you reinforced my belief that these 2d-drawing, worry about plane and flat wrists, PGA ‘certified’ guys are more harmful than good.
Not Bom but man do I envy that position on the left!!!
I’m guessing there’s a loss of “intention” in there somewhere, perhaps the “CF dump” you worked into isn’t helping either. I really struggle to get there (the left pic) and it’s maddening!!!
robbo
Looking at those pics again these thoughts come to mine:
Left - uninhibited, expanding, free-wheeling, power/precision.
Right - controlled, contracting, wishful, and hoping.