Tiger using more ABS?

Tiger’s conversion to S&T is more disappointing than his cheating scandal, imo.

Proponents of S&T and supporters of Sean Foley say that S&T has many components and not all components are necessary, and so you can be taught by an S&T teacher without having the leaning left look and steep shoulders. However, from what I see Tiger is looking more S&T. I cannot fathom why any professional golfer would want to follow S&T. I though S&T was designed for golfers that don’t know how to make a pivot, don’t know how to control low point and come OTT, etc, etc. If this is the case, what is someone like Tiger doing following the S&T model? It’s very sad, although with his talent he might just make it work. That video of Sean Foley is just so full of bad information.

Yeah it’s like the S&T crew painted themselves into a corner with this swing model and now they spend all their time trying to backpedal, retract, and redefine.

My two cents for what its worth, S&T targets itself to guys who can’t keep the driver anywhere on the planet (Aaron Baddeley, Charlie Wi etc) who never learned what proper mechanics and fundamentals are growing up and have been forced into a bunt mentality with the driver with no real pivot in order to just get the tee shot somewhere they can play from. The only tour player I’ve ever seen make this move and consistently keep his spine angle is Olazabal, who is also the best iron player I’ve ever seen in person. But the only way to play a driver without a real load is to bunt it like Baddeley does. And that sucks. The way I was taught to identify a great driver of the golf ball was by the single principle: ‘The harder you hit it the straighter it goes’. You can do any number of things like S&T or whatever and get by especially with hot balls and clubs but none of it will ever be great.

Say hello to Greg Norman-- the longest straightest driver ever when he had persimmon in his hands-- you could say he took a cut at it :smiley: His bad shots came from slowing down and steering


And Tiger has won all these majors already with some pretty awful lines. Just like Jack. All he has to do is get back to a place where he can eliminate one side of the course again and he’s good to go. Best manager of a medal play 72 hole tournament in the history of the game period. And he used to be the most disciplined competitor I’d ever seen. Whether or not he still is remains to be seen.

I know a fair amount about Stack and Tilt and while I don’t use it or advocate using it, it does get a (somewhat earned) bad wrap. Here’s how I would grade the method:

-“In hand path” on backswing (no Haney parallel planes BS) with swinging left post impact
-Flat backswing
-Use of ground forces (protocol is different from ABS…emphasizes primarily vertical)
-Shoulders turning in a circle and with constant inclination to the ground can, in my opinion, be effective and consistent for some people, especially with the shorter clubs (which is why Mac designed the pattern for use with wedges before it was expanded by P/B)
-Minimal face closure post impact
-Teaches elimination of 1 side of the course using a predominant shot pattern

-Constant head height (no significant vertical drop)
-Quite difficult to use pitch elbow or a Cp release
-Minimal use of #3 accumulator (forarm rotation)
-Advocates a flat or very slightly descending blow with the Driver (which kills distance relative to someone that has the ability to hit upwards)
-Requires conscious lateral hip slide without the upper center falling back (which can be tough…at least until you’ve practiced a whole lot)
-They advertise the system as being extremely easy to hit the ground in the same spot (in front of the ball) but what they don’t mention is that failure with their specific wrist hinge, arm swing, and hip slide protocols will upset the end result… SO ITS NOT ACTUALLY EASY TO HIT THE GROUND IN THE SAME SPOT UNLESS YOU’VE GOT THE OTHER PROTOCOLS NAILED. That was a big one for me.

I suspect Tiger will be on S&T Lite and Foley will let him move hit upper center back for longer shots. The pattern actually has some good things to offer a lot of players but in my opinion it can’t keep up with ABS, primarily because ABS teaches intentions for each body station with drills to support improvement there. S&T is position based and really doesn’t help the average golfer with the longer clubs. I agree with Bradley that it can whitewash over gross swingflaws (like Tiger had with his Haney swing) but won’t help good golfers become great.

This sounds pretty cool…

Why should history’s most rewarded golfer (a profession) depend on a Sean Folley to understand swing methodogies (I dont like the term swing philosophy). He should be assessed a 2 stroke penalty and distance.

I think this week’s event will be a good acid test for the “new” motion and his putter. Tiger obviously is very comfortable with the venue and mentally should be in a better place than he’s been for many months.

It should be fun to watch.

It is my understanding that Aaron Baddeley has put S&T behind him and is back with his early coach, Dale Lynch, who guided him to two Australian Open titles before turning professional.

You guys will love this …
{fast forward to :40s to skip fluff. Also, REAL good stuff starts at :47s…} :laughing:

Actually God help all us golfers should Tiger make this really work and succeed. We will be blitzed from media and hype with this new method should Tiger’s extreme work ethic and athleticism “prove” it works and Sean ends up looking like a genius by default considering Tiger is probably coming off his low point [pun intended] of striking a ball for his LIFE last year. Tiger WILL have a better 2011 than 2010 just by shear probability alone, and now we will all have to deal with watching majority at range slo-mo leaning to left more from the top.

I am deep down hoping he has just as bad a year and drops Foley and surrenders his ego back to Butch so we can again witness the natural grace and ballstriking again. Many of you may forget what it was like going through that learning phase of being a higher handicap golfer, but I am there so I can recall with humble ease.All you have to do was watch Tiger 2010, particularly the Firestone event where he usually owned. He looked like a rank amateur at times; no confidence, sloppy disappointed follow through as he knew ball was hit bad, shanks (he hit a photographer at one point, one of best golf photos of all time), losing temper, constant tinkering and then jumping into the next hot swing method(s) thinking the old stuff is at fault.

He says he feel real good going into this event tomorrow with his improved swing and work he has put in. I look forward to actually watching.

Someone needs to show Foley this video:

I’ve read this guy plays to scratch and drives it 280y. Just look at all that weight left at impact… :laughing:
(tremendous ground forces though)

Beautiful---- looks like he has some really good fast pivot rotation and is not just slap happy with his arms…if you only watched his upper body it is beautiful…the bottom half does well too for what he has been given

And when it all boils down what other active sport could he play at a high level…that’s why golf is such a great game for so many

I think, with Tiger, it’ll depend more if he stops at the Waffle House for breakfast before teeing off! :wink:

Captain Chaos

Wow…it’s just like the Sean Foley video!!! Earl would kick his ass for listening to that crap! Great find Budman.

Captain Chaos

Tiger looked good today. Right in thick of it at -3 (but the leader going off at -8 {this used to be Tiger}). He is definitely looking more stack/Tilt’ish at top of backswings. His upper body is centered of even leaning target-ward at the top just like Foley shows and from what I know of S&T pics. He also is hitting left at impact pretty well and with a fairly low follow through.

But I don’t know what Foley has changed, if he is just taking his divorce out on the galf ball or what, but at this rate Tiger may lead the PGA in driving distance for 2011! He had one drive of 341y and another that went 371!! That is INSANE with only a slight breeze today. Those were two of his few fairway hits though and got a lot of resulting roll.

I continue to be mesmerized by his footwork in past few events.

Bill Haas is at the top of the leaderboard today at Torrey. He carries a 2-iron and someone asked him why he doesn’t carry a hybrid. He had a great response: “I don’t like looking down at loft.”

Tiger is swinging much more vertically than he has in the past. His upper body is working more with a rotary action and his weight appears to be remaining more on his left side throughout the swing. His follow-through is brought quickly inside with a tight axis rotary action with both upper arms well connected to his torso. He has the same strong hip pivot action he’s always had. Looks like some healthy degree of S&T. I think he needs to go back to Butch Harmon…

His answer made no sense. Wonder how he feels about looking down and seeing all the loft on his 3-wood and short and mid irons…