What about the last image, #6? Is he recocking the wrist? If so, what would that accomplish? Several months ago Dufner tweeted that picture and said to look at the last two frames, but didn’t explain.
I think it’s interesting that he didn’t show the right hand doing this… or both hands on the club doing this.
Certainly he didn’t do this when he swung the golf club, but he may have felt this especially if there was an opposing force countering it… such as a rigid right elbow through impact.
It could also be that he felt a golfer should learn this first before exploring more sophisticated ways of squaring up the face at impact.
Hogan admitted that if he were to write a proper comprehensive instructional book it would been 700 pages. He hinted he would do that but never did. He never built the dream golf course he talked about either.
Jim Waldron has a good way of describing how the right arm works down, not horizontrally in the downswing (see 20-30 sec of vid). If you only go horizontal you will flip and thin it. If you do what he prescribes, keeping right wrist and forearm bend, you will get to Hogan’s left hand position. Of course, all of this is pivot driven but with a conscious downcocking of the right arm.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhrJVxY0ya4#t=33[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhrJVxY0ya4[/youtube]
That sort of makes sense to me.
Another point here to consider maybe. If the illustration is meant to show mirror images than the picture is missing one. #3 mirrors #5, #2 mirrors #6, etc, instead of #1 mirroring #6.
So maybe #6 is really something farther up the line…don’t know, just guessin’ and messin’…cuz #3 is not the mirror of #4.
I agree with Jim.
The right arm is a very misunderstood part of the golf swing, and it is very difficult to teach this downward straightening that he mentions. Mac O Grady was big on this also in his earlier teaching.
I think the proper action can be trained… but it needs to be trained in a roundabout way, because if the torso is not working properly post impact, then the right arm gets involved to save the day. The right arm straightening prematurely does add power but often over acceleration. The right arm also aids in closing the clubface if the torso and shoulders are not working properly.
I like the idea of taking timing out of the swing… so if you can limit or eliminate straightening the right arm through the strike, then you can really make a great step toward controlling both the clubface and the orientation of the shaft where it counts the most. Few did this better than Hogan and Faldo.
Now where was that post about walking. 
I agree it has to be roundabout. The pivot has to lead the action of this right arm action. It’s a great diagnostic tool to check for pivot stall b/c the right arm will shut the face easily. It was the down part of it that struck a chord with me, which got me to finally getting a clue that the swing is conical coming down and through and not so much horizontal. Yes, some, but not that much, at least to me. I just couldn’t get there with my pivot or how I imagined a proper pivot. I realized one thing, I was thinking of the pivot working in two dimensions and it was debilitating and a roadblock to any future improvements. And I found a better way to think of making a powerful pivot and almost immediately I found a proper transition and rhythm. Once I changed my thinking about how the weight could move more efficiently, I found I could be much more effective with module work. Night and day.
Paul said:
I like this discussion, and the video, but I am having a little hard time picturing and understanding, and therefore asking for a little clarification if you will.
Paul can you elaborate on what you mean by conical, that is, exactly how that cone is oriented?
Also, when you say two dimensions, which two do you mean?
And finally, what was “the better way to think of making a powerful pivot” , and what “is the way you think about your weight moving”?
Thanks!
When I say conical, the point of the cone is pointing down. The thought is a spiraling down of the swing. Not as much horizontal, more vertical, up and down. 1teebox has some good thoughts on it in the Fibonacci thread. Jim Waldron writes a bunch about illusions in the swing, arm swing, time illusions, etc., which I like. The 2 dimension illusion is simply seeing the arms moving straight back and straight through in the golf swing, no around. John and Bradley and others have certainly hammered this point home that there is a very important 3rd dimension, an under, around aspect. It’s easy to be under the 2d spell if we look at a lot of face-on and dtl videos. That’s why I like overhead videos and angles from behind and at 45 degrees up range. You see really what’s going on.
Regarding the pivot, I have struggled with balance, true balance, which means I can never freewheel it through the strike. I ran across the term, “counterfall” which essentially is a way to balance the heavy weight of the arms and club (20 plus pounds) coming through the strike. This weight can easily throw one off balance. The golfer may not realize he’s off balance b/c he’s, even subconsciously, trying to keep the weight in the instep, when in reality it’s already gone into the toes. It’s moving the weight into the calves, hamstrings and glutes back and through the strike. Not the quads. It’s a subtle move and hard to detect. So to be true in-balance, you have to train using off-balance drills. Martial arts philosophy applies here.
David Lee, was on Tour briefly (wrist injury) when Jack Nicklaus, Trevino, Chi Chi and Weiskopf were playing and he observed this counterfall, the term he eventually coined, not the move. He spoke with Jack, Trevino and Chi Chi and they agreed that’s what they did, probably unconsciously. Some of the players that employ this move are Nicklaus, Trevino, Chi Chi, Hogan, Knudson, Kenny Perry, Adam Scott, Fred Couples.
The thought is using the leg muscles in the back of the body, not the front, to power the swing, similar to how a football field goal kicker, soccer kickers lean back on the plant leg to power through. Another analogy is if you had to move a 55 gallon drum filled with water down a warehouse floor the best way to do it would be tip it on its edge and roll it, not push it. What struck me moving this way, esp. in the backswing and to the top, was I found a nice rhythm and the free ride down appeared effortlessly, b/c I wasn’t fighting my right quad esp. to balance myself, wasn’t pullling the handle excessively so which just exacerbated balance even moreso. And then coming through, the speed is just there, lots of it b/c by counterfalling, you have given your arms a massive amount of space to be powered through by the pivot. The better you counterbalance this speed, the more efficiently you can counteract cf and engage orbit pull, if I understand that term correctly.
I have to reread George Knudson to see if he speaks about this way to move the pivot, but I know now why balance was big in his game.
Here’s David Lee’s explanation. Lots of words for something that only takes two seconds to complete.
gravity-golf.blogspot.com/2013/0 … shift.html
Here’s, I think, a good example of it. Thanks, MoeHogan, for the pic.
Thanks Paul. That seems to clear it up for me. Love the 55 gallon drum analogy.
eagle
More on how the right arm works down in the downswing. Lots of power. Found this from Maves, matches up with what Waldron is saying…
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFNfY8K0Fz0[/youtube]
Stumbled upon this. I don’t give it that much credibility, since Hogan had fixed his hook before the accident. I do like the story from 150 yards in however. I had never heard the left eye story. I always heard Hogan was left eye dominate, and the way he cocked his head evidences that. I guess he could have been left eye dominate, but his range of vision had been compromised. Still, I see Hogan’s head coming off the ball a bit with a driver.
Hogan had many secrets like Lag and Two have said, everyone mentioned in that article would be correct. I do think that he had one secret that pulled it all together, the quality of his strike proves that. With that think someone here said he had to prove it, hard to say you have a secret and not win. There would be no benefit and there would be no talk about his secret if he did not have one. If he said he had a secret and did not win and did not hit it like no golfer ever then nobody would be talking about his secret, they would be laughing at the guy that said he had a secret and never won. The secret was in 1947 and not 1946.
He is the best player ever and would not be a question without the wreck, 51 wins in 10 years with 27 months not playing while in the army. Hogan won 37 in 42 months after the army. Add 51 to 70 more the next 10 years, then 20 more the next 10 years. He would be at 20 or more majors. From 1946 to 1953 his finishes in majors could not be beat.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hogan
The win percentages before the wreck include the 10 years he did not win on tour, think of his percentages from when he won to the next 10 years. 51 wins in 93 months, 37 in 42 months.
benhogancollection.blogspot.com/ … areer.html
I will say that Tiger would have near these numbers if equipment would not have advanced like it did, let many players in his game that should not have been there. If Hogan hit a great shot to 10 feet and Nelson missed one he could have been 20 yards short and 10 yards right. With that same swing today, Nelson would be at most a few yards right and likely pin high because the club face compensates for the miss by springing the ball off the face at 3 times the sweetspot area, the ball easily gets high in the air with the modern ball, and the shot will not curve offline as much because it does have a high enough spin rate to allow for that. Add to this the great greens, how many more players can compete with Tiger that are inferior ball strikers but great short game players. The shot that is by the green instead of 30 yards away now becomes easier than it already is because of the quality greens, chipping to 10 feet or less and making the putt is no big deal today compared to what it would have been. The greens here are hard from 10 feet because they do not roll like tour greens, but make them tour quality and I would be at least 4 strokes better. In that day ball striking was everything, you could not make up shots as easily like today. If they had greens like today all of them would be shooting at least 2 strokes lower, creating more competition from inferior ball strikers like Tiger has to deal with.
I know the pro at the course David Lee is at, about 20 minutes from here. I will ask him what some of his views are and if they are similar to ABS.
This was in the article linked by nfbandon above…
Wonderful stuff.
I’ve always had a lot of fun by going up a couple of clubs for an approach shot (e.g., a 5-iron from 150), and the results are often pretty good. And I always seem to learn something from it.
I am pretty sure David Lee will not be familiar with or a proponent of ABS…as I recall he is a gravity CF swinger…but I may be wrong. 
He may not be a proponent and his swing model is Fred Couples. I think though one could learn something about how to move weight in the swing differently, more efficiently, still using ABS protocols. But, yes, David Lee believes in slinging the club dtl with feeling ball is stuck on clubface, and impact is just a pass-through point.
_
_
Anyone want to go sailing?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7khQNR7s1Ho[/youtube]