Thoughts on Ben Hogan

[Addington_Arnie]

@JesseV

Have any of you guys seen this?

Ben Hogan DSL Irons 9 to 5 with Lie Angles
youtube.com/watch?v=wfEtoE9X … re=related

lag - what are your impressions of the lie angles that are documented in this video?

Jesse I think that video was made by forum member chris_golf or at least i think that is Chris’s you tube account - just for reference.

Cheers, Arnie

[lbcyp]

@lagpressure

[attachment=0]2.gif[/attachment]

It’s impressive to me how well Hogan kept his hips moving from impact to p4, it seems that very few if any players did this as well as him, most guys seem to stall their rotation to some degree at that point in the swing.

[JesseV]

Thanks Arnie.
Do you believe those lie angles correct?

Not trying to diss anyone, just looking for confirmation.

jesse

[Paul_C]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwhNpvXZnnY[/youtube]

[twomasters]

What’s Ben doing at this clinic?

[nfbandon]

I can’t speak for the last one. The first one could be an exaggerated demonstration of use of ground forces or Mod 2. The second has to be Mod 3.

[eagle]

Two said:

What’s Ben doing at this clinic?

Don’t know, but here’s what they reminded me of…

only representing different points in the swing. Maybe he is showing what what he feels, or drills he uses, or purposefully exaggerated feels…
Is this the Joe Norwood wall drill? Right foot just like Moe’s above.

The right hand here is very interesting, as well as the clubface.

[RangeRat]

I would say the first picture of Hogan you posted Eagle ( facing the larger crowd ) is pretty damn close to Norwood’s golf-o-metric exercise about climbing the wall, which Joe said Trevino did as well. I really like the picture and have not seen it before, so thank you very much Two for posting it. He is certainly not losing the shaft anywhere, but if you combine a little rotation to the more linear event depicted then the two marry up quite nicely.

Don’t know if you have Norwood’s book or not, but I do and although it has some cobwebs on it, I will be more than happy to copy some text here from Joe about that exercise.

[slight_fade]

I do not know what he is doing, but he is not letting the club get past his hands.

[SlamminSam2]

Come on guys! He is fooling around. He is not demonstrating intentions or anything else. He is doing a clinic and having a little fun. He did this numerous times. I am sure he would enjoy your interpretation though and be proud that you want to try and learn from his jokey swings. No offense meant, but he IS human and clinics in those days probably weren’t as humorless as they are today.

[slight_fade]

That did cross my mind but he does look rather serious!

[eagle]

@SlamminSam2

Come on guys! He is fooling around. He is not demonstrating intentions or anything else. He is doing a clinic and having a little fun. He did this numerous times. I am sure he would enjoy your interpretation though and be proud that you want to try and learn from his jokey swings. No offense meant, but he IS human and clinics in those days probably weren’t as humorless as they are today.

Yes …that may be all it is. In that case however, these may represent sort of a Freudian slip so to speak, kidding around but nonetheless showing his true feelings that he cannot hide despite any effort.

here’s a post impact of Moe (remember he’s a swinger)

and compare to Hogan

Obviously these are hard to compare being from different directions. It’s hard to see Moe’s shaft, can assume it’s down the line? Would the difference…the clugshaft direction…be attributable to Hogan’s angled hinge vs Moe’s release?

[eagle]

Any follow-up Two on what Hogan was really doing and when that article was printed? Your thoughts?

[twomasters]

No Idont have the faintest idea what he was showing… Just thought the photos were interesting.
My ‘guess’ at the pic immediately above (where he has his cap on sideways) would be he is imitating a poor golfer who just swings his arms and tries to steer the ball
Actually reminds me of a cover drive in cricket

[macs]

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/ben-hogan-secret-success-was-repeatable-swing-and-work-ethic

Peter Costis talking some sense about Hogan.

[lagpressure]

The golf professional offered to let us practice with the actual last set of clubs he used. What an amazing experience! Hogan’s clubs were much flatter and open (about three degrees) than I expected. In fact, after playing with his clubs I understood his swing a lot better. No wonder he wished he had two right hands. They were needed to square up the clubface. I had also forgotten how much smaller the wood heads were back then.

Today’s golfers would not take such a fearless rip at the ball if they had to play with Hogan’s thimble-size driver head. Course conditioning has also played a role in changing the game. In Hogan’s day, fairway conditions varied widely and greens were slower, so the best players needed a great pair of hands. Today, many instructors try to take the hands out of the full swing and the putting stroke entirely. Plus, golf course designs have changed; today’s courses force players to fly the ball over bunkers and water hazards. In Hogan’s day, players ran the ball along the ground much more often.

He found a swing that he could repeat under pressure. Plus he made sure his equipment was fit to what he needed to do with his swing.

[lagpressure]

A student sent this over showing the flattening or leveling of the shoulders post impact. His thoughts:

"I want the left shoulder and club shaft to move with acceleration, through impact and beyond, in their own parallel planes tilted at the lie angle of the club.

Here’s why:
The pre and post-impact path of the left shoulder in its plane, parallel to the lie angle of the club and the line from ball to target, plus continued intent to accelerate the pivot strongly beyond impact, can establish much of the quality, speed, and consistency of club action and path through impact. This is because the left shoulder precedes the hands and club when it passes through its own p4 position pre-impact and also through its own p5 position post-impact."

A good focus for module 3 and 4 students in particular.

By doing this, it helps speed up the distance the left shoulder travels through and beyond impact while also aiding in the orbit pull fight.

[Paul_C]

@lagpressure

[attachment=0]hogan_flat.jpg[/attachment]

A student sent this over showing the flattening or leveling of the shoulders post impact. His thoughts:

"I want the left shoulder and club shaft to move with acceleration, through impact and beyond, in their own parallel planes tilted at the lie angle of the club.

Here’s why:
The pre and post-impact path of the left shoulder in its plane, parallel to the lie angle of the club and the line from ball to target, plus continued intent to accelerate the pivot strongly beyond impact, can establish much of the quality, speed, and consistency of club action and path through impact. This is because the left shoulder precedes the hands and club when it passes through its own p4 position pre-impact and also through its own p5 position post-impact."

A good focus for module 3 and 4 students in particular.

By doing this, it helps speed up the distance the left shoulder travels through and beyond impact while also aiding in the orbit pull fight.

A lot of mumbo jumbo here. Let’s get this crystal clear:

What gets the left shoulder moving away as fast and as far away from the ball as possible?

[lagpressure]

Strength, conditioning… opposing forces rooted in ground pressures. The 5th accumulator I talked about in the LTLGM thread a while back.
Everything we do in Mod 3 and 4.

[Paul_C]

I think this is useful…

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYe7ud8Tf0Y[/youtube]