Yes, I started doing that… just taking divots to warm up… and really focus on my low point control. Getting ball bound is one of the worst things for me, and I think a lot of other players also.
I’m a good enough striker that if I am taking nice clean consistent divots, then if I put a ball in the way of that… it’s going to be nice strikes. I know how to draw and fade the ball, so no issues there. Good clean divots keeps me on point with my swing.
In the TRGA Event in Las Vegas, I did the same thing, and just hit one range ball with my driver to find out what my “tendency” would be that day. Kinda like taking a mulligan off the first tee. Most of the time a bad strike is followed by a good one after we feel what our body is up to “today”. This worked well… I just went to the first tee knowing what that range ball did… so like a mulligan, just was aware and made the correction for “todays” swing. I won the event by 7 shots hitting only one range ball before the rounds.
It eliminates the negativity that can enter the brain on the first tee. I really don’t want to know what I am going to shoot or how I am going to play. Sometimes on the range we are hitting terrible and show up to the first tee feeling negative about that. Also sometimes we are hitting it great on the range but we hit a poor shot off the first tee and then walking down the first fairway… filled with “what happened?” … that can be negative as well.
Paul… how did you prepare for your rounds mentally? Was there a difference between going into a final round leading or a few shots behind? What were your wins like? Leading? A few behind? Did you ever shoot really low the last round thinking you had no chance to win but ended up hoisting the trophy and winner’s check?
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That’s actually genius, your warm up routine.
I was actually checking out places around my house where I could take divots without getting in trouble. Save some $ and time getting to the range.
I was always nervous heading to the course for a tournament round. I always wanted to play my best no matter where I stood in the tournament.
I think I was more nervous when I was hitting it bad. If I was playing well it was a more excited kinda nervous.
I’d go through every hole in my mind in the hotel room. If there was a particular hole or two on the course that required a bit of a different shot, maybe a big cut or draw off the tee, I’d practice that shot a little during my warm up.
My wins in Canada. I led Steve Alker by one in Edmonton. I was playing solid and felt confident. Steve lost his ball on the first hole and made double, so I was instantly up by 3. It stayed that way through 9, then I eagled 10 to go up by 5 and played steady in to win by 4 I think.
My win in Quebec 1998 was actually a matchplay tournament. In the final match I was 8 under through 12 and shaking hands. I had a mind set that no one could beat me that week. A few weeks later in New Brunswick, I shot 60 (12 under) in the final round only to finish a few back of Tim Clark.
I was one back going into the final round in Victoria 2001. My mum had just passed away suddenly a month earlier, so I entered that final round with a sense of ‘this is for mum’. I shot 66 to win by one. I got a very fortunate bounce on the 15th hole where the ball could have been stymied behind a bush, but kicked a little left and left me a clear shot. Thanks mum 
My 2nd win in Quebec, 2001, I was 4 or 5 back of Ken Duke. Ken was playing great, so my mind set was to try and get up for 2nd. As it turned out, I was 3 back going down the last tied for 2nd with my playing partner, Doug LaBelle. The last is a par 5 with a big ravine in front of the green. A good 3 wood could sneak it onto the front right of the green where the ravine started. The pin was back left and a huge carry to go that route. I got it on the front right and holed an 87ft putt for eagle. Ken bogied 17 & parred 18. I birdied the 2nd playoff hole to win.
Like they say, you may be playing well, but you have a little luck to win sometimes.
I missed getting my Canadian Tour card in 1987 by a shot @Thunderbird. I played w a swing that would have failed imo under any heavy pressure. In fact, I was always nervous about actually playing in the Doral or Honda if I made Monday qualifier bc of that loose throw the right arm down the line swing. Missed both of those by a shot too 
with a flip
I guess it brings me to how the hell did you guys do it with thise swings. ? What Im learning and affirmed by what John is talking about makes it almost impossible to think someone could have won swinging like we did slinging and flipping . I hit more balls than anyone in the day.
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87 was also the year I got my Card at Thunderbird in Canada. I remember playing with Jim Benepe the last round… there was a rain delay etc… and I made it easily, but Jim was right on the bubble. He asked an “official” what it looked like and Jim was basically needing to make an 80 foot putt to get his card…
He holed it!
Just incredible.
Then Jim went on to win the Order of Merit either that year or the next.
Then the other story was playing with Jim at Alberta Open at Wolf Creek and Jim asked me for a ride to the airport as he was flying down to Chicago for the Western Open on the PGA Tour. He had received a sponsor exemption because he had won the Western Amateur or Junior etc… and was in good grace with someone there.
He wins the Western Open on the PGA Tour in his very first PGA Tour event… beating Greg Norman down the stretch…
Two incredible stories from a guy who played his irons 8 degrees flat!
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John is teaching what all the great ball strikers did, retain shaft flex through impact. The guys that hit it pure day in, day out, all the time.
There’s plenty of pga tour pro’s making tons of $ that don’t do this. Lots of ways to skin a cat as they say. I’m sure you had a good golf swing. John had a good golf swing, I had a good golf swing, but we weren’t considered ball striking geniuses, at least I wasn’t. For a brief 12-18 month period in my golf career I may have even touched on retaining shaft flex. My ball striking was certainly fantastic during that period. But I didn’t win everything.
During my career I missed my fair share of cuts, either hitting it bad, or short game was horrible, or my attitude sucked. Then, when my timing was better, or my short game was sharp and my head was screwed on right, then I was cashing checks and maybe having a chance to win.
I remember my friend Ken Duke being interviewed after he won on the big tour. He was asked what the difference was between the good players on the smaller tours and the guys on the pga tour. He said “not much, just some guys make it and some don’t, that’s the way it is”.
I never made it on to the pga tour, came close a few times, but that’s the way it is.
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I remember Jack Nicklaus Jr was playing behind me when I shot 71 the last day. It was like a dream thinking I might be on Canadian tour. Even though some of us that didnt make it the game has been a amazing fulfillment. Im more excited than ever with this orbit pull. Alot of people talk about swinging left but there is a trick to it as you mentioned. I never thought the club “didnt” want to come left. That tension in the handle makes alot of sense now.
It reminds me of when I tried to pole vault and never bent the shaft. I sucked because I couldnt capture the force to sling me. Well, This orbit pull move is essential or Id have to keep slapping and flipping and suck.
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Will Zaltoris and Young today look like they do this orbit pull. Davis Love looks like alot of hands more of an old school hope my timing is good today and lots of balls at range needed. Agree or disagree?
I can only speak for seeing Davis Love… more a swinger’s release for sure. Hit is super long but not a great short iron player in my opinion. Not an advantage being tall in golf… maybe for long driving, but not necessarily for accuracy. Would be better to do what George Archer did and just play off a lot more knee flex to flatten your lie angles some. Archer did this well… very tall like 6-4 or 6-5.
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Would love to hear you discuss figuring courses out Paul, John, in the taking it on the road thread. How pros seem to do it so quickly.
I’m using a website that gives % club selections and watching tv you get a glimpse of it, but I’m amazed the sheer range of clubs used on one course then others it’s mainly driver off the tee. Both seem similar to me I can’t figure out the strategy. It appears to be, take the lowest number off the tee and don’t take clubs that risk a double with your widest dispersion.
John, a question for you.
I think I know the answer, but I’ll ask anyway.
In regard to lie angle, you play 6 degrees flat. You’re 6 ft tall, and mention you must have a little more flex in your knees for 6 flat to fit.
Someone taller, 6ft 4 or so, would have to flex even more.
So my question is: If 6ft 4 guy went to Ping for instance, and did their club fitting analysis, and it came back saying he needs 2 degrees upright, would 4 degrees flat be the same as your 6 degrees flat?
That that step further. If Hogan did the Ping thing and, because he’s 5ft 9, it came back as 2 degrees flat, would 6ft 4 guy need 2 flat to match hogan’s 6 flat? And yourself (assuming Ping says you’re standard) would need 4 flat, not 6?
I may have just confused myself here, but you get the question right?
I’m thinking the answer can be found with a t-square, but always good to ask.
How about Darren Clark or Joel Edwards. This is exactly what Ive been trying to do for years that has kept me bak from being more of a striker not a flipper. The stable clubface is fleeting with this “chase down the line” move for me. How do guys do this under intense pressure is beyond me. I cant do it by myself unless I’ve hit 100 balls bf I play and thats no guarantee.
The orbit pull is not chasing but releasing the WHOLE club with shaft pressure period.
I think the problem is that the “standard” for lie angles is no longer a universally agreed number.
Each company has their own “standard”… so are far as Ping… I don’t know what their standard is.
I just go off the old common standard from the era of clubs I am usually dealing with… 50s through 70’s.
I’ve had students 6/4 playing off 6 flat… but that might be a stretch… it’s possible that a golfer that tall might have longer arms… so that could help.
I don’t require students to play off 6 degrees flat or any lie angle for that matter… I just highly recommend they go as flat as they can within reason… and bending more at the knees for taller players has been helpful.
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The right arm throw stuff is all about timing, tempo etc.
When you are playing everyday, grinding hundreds of ball etc… you can make a lot of things work.
My epiphany came when I wasn’t playing anymore… and not hitting balls. I realized I needed a simpler method… that would still work well. I found that actually what I needed was better technique. A hitting technique is far superior for reliability and doesn’t require the ball beating, timing work. Less toe rotation through the strike… and embracing the “hit impulse” rather than trying to avoid that has been a game changer. So that hit… that acceleration then also puts pressure and feel into my hands so I then know where the clubface is at… even if I am not playing or hitting lots of balls.
Ball beating is probably helpful to a point… but at some point I think it actually becomes counter productive.
When we are on the course, we don’t get to hit pile of balls to rehearse the shot we are about to execute. So all that ball beating goes out the window. Each shot is different. Grooving a shot on the range that might come up just a couple times a round at best is overrated. Also the shot on the range likely isn’t going to have the same lie or wind conditions… above or below your feet… all that stuff. I like courses where I have to play off uneven lies. Ranges are flat… not really such a great place to practice. My best practice is in the late afternoon out on the course… hitting shots into real greens from real lies, sidehill, down or uphill to various pin placements. I love hitting a few balls into a green hitting different shots, trajectories …really feeling the shot along with the elements and feeling the intensity of the shot and distances. I try to avoid playing with yardages… I don’t mind a general yardage… but from there it’s all instinct and there is a real skillset there to be had.
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I’m 6’3"
I played 6 flat for a couple years and it was fine. I shot some decent scores like that, but it created an uncomfortable posture for me. I also played 1 upright for a while, but didn’t strike it great like that. What I’ve found works best for me is about 2 flat (kinda). I like to stand fairly upright and don’t like extended club lengths to accommodate my height. That lends to 6 flat not working for me.
I say be practical - don’t get hung up on the numbers, just find the setup that aligns with the swing and the ball flight you want.
p.s. I’m not an ABS student or swinging in line with that methodology, so just giving practical advice, not commenting on how that works for tall players.
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John, Im curious about ur take on guys that hinge slap release Couples Daly Singh and Rory? Couples and Daly do pretty good without alot of work. Are they freaks of nature or is that method of release a viable option for some people? Maybe it doesnt take as much work since the body isnt the dominant force as it stalls thru impact as the hands release more like a snap or flip. Whatever the case shaft pressure doesnt seem to be the focus as much as speed at the bottom with active hands.
If u had a student come to you for help that was a scratch player would you try to convert him to the orbit pull or work on things that you did well on tour swinging in a similar way? I have a guy in that situation Im helping that goes down the line with right arm and is a +1 handicap. Thanks !
I just watched Couples in the Vid you attached. From what I was seeing, he appears to hold shaft flex well. On the down the line view, coming into impact, his body is rotating hard, right elbow remains bent, good pressure in the armpits, etc. From the face on view he seems to have held shaft flex into impact. I think, because he folds his left arm quite quickly after impact, it gives the impression he slapped at it. He has said, as a kid, he tried to get the club over his left shoulder as quick as he can because the ball went further when he did that…i.e. folding left arm. With regards to teaching someone, the more things you can get them to do that will help retain shaft flex through impact the better imo. The drills Lag teaches are designed to do just that.
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It would depend…
If they were coming to me… I would assume it would be because they are not happy with the results they are getting… swinger’s release etc.
2023 almost here. One more year to pelt those white orbs
Happy soon to be New Year ! I’ve benefited greatly on going to flatter lie angles ! I’ve got my Srixon ZX7’s as follows:
4 and 5 irons, 1 flat of their standard which is about the same as Mizzuno specs(flatter than most)
6 iron, 2 flat
7 iron, 3 flat
8,9 and wedge, 4 flat
gap, 2 flat
56&62, 3 flat
All of my clubs are heavy(D6-D8) so I can transition the club better.
Still messing with the Modern driver but for now, the TaylorMade Mini-Driver is fine.
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with a flip
