That’s all part of the risk/reward of going after shots. Just look at Lag’s last hole at TRGA where he went for a big one to catch Two… in the end he paid for it - I think if a player swings out of his shoes on every tee, there’s a risk of clocking up a very big score.
On the tour today I think all of the players would prefer being 30 yards nearer the hole in the rough than 30 yards back on the fairway with a penalty. I just don’t see how this rule would be too leniant on the bomb and gouge player - they already get away with that kind of game anyway and it will only change when they can’t find their ball.
I think this rule really helps those of us (which is nearly all of us) who don’t have ball spotters to play our shot and walk calmly away from the tee without over-worrying about finding the ball.
Where does it say that in the rules? I can only find references that recommend you play a provisional to save time if you think your ball may be lost.
At a course where I play, the rough is not made of long blades of grass but of a kind of foliage that covers any ball that enters it and more often than not you only find your ball if you’re lucky. This stuff is very close to the fairway next to the first cut. This means that you risk losing the ball everytime it’s off the fairway/first cut. I tend to play a provisional at that course all the time because too many times my round has been ruined by not being able to post a score.
That’s not an intelligent course set up Teddy. They’re asking for slow rounds. Someone shouldn’t be penalized even a stroke and 30 yards for just missing the fairway.
[i]27-2a/3 Play of Provisional Ball in Absence of Reasonable Possibility Original Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds
Q. In the absence of reasonable possibility that a ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, may the player play a provisional ball?
A. No. If a player plays a ball under such circumstances, the ball is not a provisional ball but the ball in play — see Decision 27-2a/2.[/i]
I don’t see it when I play because I let them know about 27-2a/3 and I don’t want them wasting my time.
If the rules appear like they can be taken advantage of, you’ll nearly always find there’s a rule to prevent it–even to the detriment of those who unknowingly did the same thing.
Teddy and Lag, there you go, print Steb’s little gem out and keep in your bag. Excess provisional’s should be a thing of the past!
Teddy, perhaps a letter to your golf club’s council asking to remove/replace the existing vegetation would be easier than trying to get the rules of golf changed
That’s odd as in my PDF file that I downloaded from the R&A a year or two ago, there is no 27-2a/3… was it a recent addition? However, in my opinion there is a reasonable possibility of losing the ball everytime it goes in the rough. My competitors may have an alternative idea of what reasonable means to me. I don’t think they’ll be impressed if I pull out that rule, insist they don’t play a provisional, and then they walk up to look for the ball and can’t find it!
I agree that the course setup in my example is not ideal. However, it’s perhaps unreasonable to assume that all golf clubs all round the world have the resources to support the perfect golf course setup. They simply don’t. Here around Rome very few courses are able to properly maintain the bunkers and ground conditions all year round. We have to accept what we are presented with and I imagine it’s like that in many other locations too.
Just yesterday I played a course where the setup was similar to what teddy described. Some sort of foliage which covers the entire rough area with leaves just a couple of inches above the ground.
Damn near impossible to find balls there, but it won’t stop people from trying…
Sadly this kind of setup is quite common over here too.
In the Morri tapes, it mentioned TRGA doesn’t use cart path relief…assuming the paths are paved- why not have relief. Maybe I missed something in the discussion.
It’s amazing how much friction rules cause amongst people…
just sit back and shut your eyes for a minute and imagine that I had just invented a game and called it golf and said here are the rules, we call them TRGA
You would all say…“wow that’s awesome”… but because we have all these 800 pages of basically too much crap already in place everyone thinks it should be taken as gospel…
again… why does the rules have to be so complicated and in a fashion that not only can hardly one golfer on the planet actually know them all but everyone that plays abuses them anyhow?
Any rule reference with a slash in it is a Decision and is printed in the Decisions book, which also forms part of the official Rules. They are in a more friendly Q and A format and serve to provide examples and explanation of many rules, also handling more esoteric questions that might come up like can someone swat away a fly buzzing around whilst in a bunker
I noticed in the interview you or Lag were very careful to mention there was no relief for stance. But where in the TRGA rules does it say you can get relief for the intended area of swing?
Wow, we have the decisions book as well… I was unaware of that! I’ve just taken a look on the R & A site - Lag wasn’t far off when he said the number of pages were 900… I think the rules of golf are looking sillier by the minute!
I was just looking at another rule on abnormal ground conditions. Apparently you get free relief if your ball lands in a hole made by a mole, but not one made by a dog… well, I’m speechless!
The huge problem with the rules of golf is they are meant to be adhered to and followed by the golfers themselves
Now from what I have seen NOBODY plays 100% by the rules… all players all look for loopholes and innuendos and circumstances to take advantage of a rule …they break them by dropping in the wrong spot either knowingly or unknowingly. Almost every week we see a pro getting disqualified or penalized…so if they don’t know the rules imagine what is occurring at normal club or public level
remember the rules are there to HELP a player- but all we ever see is the rules of golf hindering a golfer by getting them dq’d… take for eg the ball moving on the green rule… I know I never made the ball move because the wind blew it 3 feet down the hill, YET I can get penalized because the wind blew my ball away…yet not get penalized if I didn’t ground my club…that is so far fetched as a rule… you either touched it and made it move on your own accord or you didn’t touch it…why should you be penalized for an outside agency? Archaic rule that does nothing to help a golfer enjoy the game…and then it becomes my word against yours whether I did ground my club, didn’t ground my club, actually touched the ball or if it was just a freak of nature
If the pros of the world (who are meant to be the finest in every regard) can’t get all the rules right and even officials need a rule bookAND a decisions book to possibly work out what should be done… aren’t the rules way off the mark
As I have said before…ALL other sports have a trained referee who takes courses, take tests, wears a funny colored uniform and makes rules decisions based on their eyes and how they see what happened right before them…yet in golf we put the onus on ALL the golfers of the world , not an outside, immune to the result moderator, to monitorthe game themselves based on their own judgmental thoughts and prejudices and truth be told not many make a good fist of it because they have bets they want to win, personal best scores they want to achieve, handicap goals they want to reach and trophies or prizes they may want to win and they can quite easily do whatever they want rulewise to achieve these things.
If you think the rules are fine Styles and you honestly believe you abide by them all to the letter, even though the pros of the game don’t 100% of the time, then you have found your utopia… But until the rules are easy, simplistic, and can be pretty much written on one sheet of paper then no-one can possibly understand them all or use them as they were intended to be used, so everyone is in reality cheating the rules because of the format they are in right now, no matter who you are or how much you think you follow them
Sounds like you are describing the TRGA rules there Styles.
If we reduce the rules of golf to “play the ball as it lies”, then TRGA is much closer to that ideal, is it not?
Silly me - I had a rule book and didn’t know I needed another one explaining the first book. And yet I know the rules better than 90% of those with whom I have ever played.
I reckon you revel in all the complexity of the rules Stylsie!
I like the TRGA rules. Did some thinking and the fact that everyone would be on the same page in terms of how things are interpreted, it would most certainly speed things up.
Any restrictions on number or type of persimmons allowed in the bag.
14 clubs any combination…so long as woods are actually made of wood (what’s in a name!!) and have steel shafts… irons are to be blade style, no perimeter weighting, no hybrids again steel shafted only… we used pre 1980 irons as a basis for the past event so the grooves were normal also with no opportunity to be square and give any undue spin advantage, in other words the shot had to be struck properly to be receptive on the greens… highest loft on a wedge could 56… putter blade/bullseye/mallet with no alignment aids or such giving a player undeue assistance at one of the true facets of the game- alignment on their own.
Amazingly we weren’t allowed to have caddies stand behind us and line us up either
pretty sure I’ve said a few times on this thread that I don’t believe the current rules are fine.
Don’t forget this is a thread debating the rules, its not a ‘lets fix the rules in 5 minutes’ thread. I don’t see why everything should be ‘your way or my way’ and argumentative. What’s wrong with discussion?
How many times have I said that as far as I am concerned the TRGA rules are the same as the TGRA rules? Fine for what they are governing.
I could never ever see a scenario where the TRGA rules would be adopted by the R&A or USGA.
I think some of the TRGA rules are fine, I think others need work though. I wouldn’t remove OB from the game because it places a premium on accuracy and disadvantages the poorer players. I think the provisional ball rule is ideal for courses where there is heavy rough and trees lining the fairway.
Lets continue the debate in a healthy, respectful manner. No need to reinvent the wheel, no need to be disrespectful to the founders of the game and rule makers who were just doing their best.
like I said, thats the basic premise of the rules of golf - perhaps the TRGA who are coming up with their own rules are closer to the R&A’s rules than they like to think
And yet I know the rules better than 90% of those with whom I have ever played.
(what’s in a name!!) and have steel shafts… irons are to be blade style, no perimeter weighting, no hybrids again steel shafted only… we used pre 1980 irons as a basis for the past event so the grooves were normal also with no opportunity to be square and give any undue spin advantage, in other words the shot had to be struck properly to be receptive on the greens… highest loft on a wedge could 56… putter blade/bullseye/mallet with no alignment aids or such giving a player undeue assistance at one of the true facets of the game- alignment on their own.