The Players

Send Lag the money for mod 1. Oh that’s right… you’re already in the program. You CAN’T be Tiger!!! :slight_smile:

One of the biggest falls from grace in sports history! Perhaps the biggest.

Yeah something like that…All I know is that surgery by itself is not always the best option. Obviously, the best option is keeping it from blowing out in the first place…Cause once you bung it up its never going to be the same again. The he can hope for now is that its going to be usable again but it will keep occuring if things dont change. Ive said that since his open blow out.

And with the total knee replacement, part of the problem is that the implants are relatively rigid. I means teflon coated metal is not going to be the same as bone and cartilage. Id be willing to bet that he gets it scoped and maybe a few cadaver implants for whatever he has torn to shreds. Maybe even take a ligament out of his hand, believe it or not there is one in there that doesn’t do a damn thing. It may even be multiple implants I wish I could get my hands on his charts and imaging. I’m sure its a sight to see. There is place for prolotherapy and Packed platelets in this whole knee conversation too, that is the only way i have heard of regrowing a ligament but like i said its only ever going to be about 80% of what it was before the injury. Its simply about how the body repairs ligaments, and frankly it doesn’t do that great of a job.

I kinda hope he goes to india. I can only watch a guy blow up like that for so long before it makes me hurt inside :confused:

Jesus, Fisher, that’s depressing. You’re right, Tiger’s screwed. I’m with LCDV, we’ll never see one like him again, at least I won’t. It’s like a champion racehorse…out to pasture and then…(sound of gun cocking…)

Ya I guess his attempts at going out to stud had below avg results…

I don’t think I can write him off. It was just a few weeks ago he was tied for the lead at one point on Sunday at The Masters.
It’s easier to remember what you used to do more than it is to figure out a way to get there in the first place.

As far as Tiger’s major chase… the game is so different now that it’s not fair to compare even if he were to beat Jack’s record.
In the Snead, Hogan, Nelson era, the North South, and the World Championship of golf were majors of that era, but are not counted in today’s book. Hogan played only one British Open, and rarely played the PGA Championship which was for many years a match play event.

Majors used to crown typically the world’s top players, but now they just crown who played good that week like any other typical tour event. This is what happens by homogenizing the game. We are seeing so many different winners because the game has lost so many of it’s vital dimensions. It’s just so much more open to anyone who can bomb it … wedge it and have a good week on the velvet greens. The need for many of the special skills have been so eroded away that we end up with diluted courses, gear and winners.

Seriously? Is this possible nowadays? But i guess a new - artifical - knee would never stand the stress a natural knee could withstand?

“But at my back I always hear
Time’s winged chariot hurrying near”

“There is no bad thing that does not have a little good in it”

Most counted Hogan out after the accident. He proved them wrong.


Good point, but two things Tiger is battling (besides the injuries and Foley) are depth of field and what has to be some deep mental scarring from his publicly paraded outrageous transgressions and his divorce (w/kids). Hogan’s physical injuries were probably worse, but his mental state was surely in better shape than Tiger’s.

I’m beginning to think if Tiger gets within one or two of Jack’s major record at this point he really IS the greatest of all time even if he comes up a couple short in the majors dept. Put an asterisk next to if you want but talk about hitting rock bottom and recovering (if he does that is).

Well said, Eagle.
For all the talk of his knees, there’s a very, very good chance that he pulled out simply due to playing like SHITE. In fact, my money is on that being the sole reason. His biggest battle, as Robbo points out, is Foley and general toxic technique. He has nearly 10 years of it covering up his true ability, I can only hope he figures that out sooner rather than later.

Hey jf,

What field are you in? My guess both from personal and professional experience is that Tiger’s reconstruction is fine but that he has some serious meniscus issues, both from chronic use/injury and, most importantly, from the fact that he basically walked 7000 yards and made 40 swings pivoting on an unstable (read: acl-less) left knee when he won the open in 2008. Additionally, if he has any laxity in the repair it would put him at risk for instability and repeated meniscal injuries. My own reconstructed knee has just a hair of instability (my graft probably stretched when i got too aggresive with rehab) and im retired from soccer as a result. I doubt that he would need a total knee in order to continue playing in the short term, let’s say five years, but he’ll probably need one eventually. I seriously doubt whether anyone could play at the highest level with a prosthetic knee.

If his Achilles is really torn–even partially–he should probably pack it in for the year. Certainly any PEDs that he potentially may have taken but him at risk for these types of injuries. Protecting a bad Achilles is certainly a great way to injure other parts of the body, a bum left knee for example.

Assuming he gets over the Achilles I bet he will be fine long-term, just needs to manage chronic pain in left knee with injections and playing less tournaments, I would think.

My surgeon told me that most grafts return to about 95% strength of the original. Repeated arthroscopies to shave down the meniscus increase the chance of arthritis, both due to the invasiveness of the procedure (going into the joint causes scar tissue-like adhesions) and due to the fact that there is less shock-absorbing cartilage.

0% chance of that happening…there are no Waffle House waitresses in India. :wink: (and I know…I’ve looked for 'em)

Captain Chaos

Hmm, I smell a business opportunity.

Hey all,

Im still in my training years. Haven’t started residency yet but I will be going into Ortho. I spend a fair amount of my free time reading ortho journals. As for the total knee, i completely agree, he probably doesn’t need it and if he does he is almost certainly done. Total knees are most often put in when there is serious degenerative arthritis. Tigers injuries are more of an acute on chronic thing rather then just a full on 70yo construction work who has given his knees a pounding.

That being said, I have seen knees in the anatomy lab where people have had multiple cadveric implants in one knee. Meaning they take an ACL from a cadaver and maybe an MCL and they put in the person that needs it. I would guess if tiger had a bad enough tear this is what he would get. This is Probably a better option if your still trying to play golf and you will still get a knee that is almost as good as a new one. Its really hard to speculate on what tiger actually has. As for the healing, It is true that implants are much stronger then the 80% I had said earlier. Thats why we use implants. Because a knee that is 80% in one or two ligaments, its probably not going to work very well and will eventually destabilize and lead to a tear of something. Probably a meniscus.

Meniscus tear…Probably. There is the terrible triad which is seen in a lot of athletes. Especially in twisting injuries. The Meniscus tears I have seen, haven’t ever been quite right. People are still in massive amount of pain years later. For example my friend had a terrible triad in high school soccer. Rehabbed it, played in college and just today we were sitting on the ground getting certified for CPR and she was complaining about her knee. The problem is there just really isn’t a good way to replace the meniscus and what ends up happenings is you just cut the offending portion out and hope the rest of it works ok. :confused:

In the future for tiger I would look for his injuries to switch sides, assuming he gets his current situation under control id bet he is going to start placing a hole lot more pressure on the other side of his body. Its all connected really.

I hope we see tiger come back, it would be a hell of a come back story. Time will tell.

Just noticed while somebody was putting there was posted right behind him: NOW PUTTING NICK WATNEY USA 14’ 4" on the scoreboard while he’s still lining it up. So what’s next, iYardage? Whatever man…

I think this information is posted on scoreboards on a regular basis - not just at the players. Yet if i´m informed correctly, if you´d go ahead and measure out your putt during your round you would get a penalty since you are not allowed to?

Kinda confusing, isnt it?

It sure ain’t like it used to be… Last time I was at a Tour event was 2002 at the Nissan Open when I was looping for a friend. As I recall I spent more time than not at the Haagen Dazs hospitality tent anyway… You burn a lot of calories wading through a bog & those milkshakes are beyond belief.

The players aren’t allowed to use any artificial device to measure the distance of their putt but they’re allowed to pace it off. They’re also not allowed to watch the broadcast during their round but a casual glimpse of a big screen shoved in their face won’t get 'em done.

This wouldnt be a big deal at all if some amateur would be given the exact distance to the hole - nobody practices putting by measuring the distance to the hole.

BUT - arent some of these guys running around with charted greens provided by Aimpoint, which give you the exact amount of break from specific locations or distances. And if you now have the exact distance as informatioin available, wouldnt this give them an advantage?

Time to fire up the rules violation hotline ( 800 - Tim - Finchem) … :smiley: