The Golf Channel

kevinhutto · July 17, 2013, 12:43pm

Has anyone here besides me noticed that the Golf Channel isn’t really the golf channel at all… Its the PGA Tour channel.

It seems that having three guys pontificate (again) as to why or why not Phil or Tiger will win the Open is the best programming they can think of… golf is much deeper and more exciting than just what is going on with those 125 guys.

Classic old footage/tourneys, Amateur golf, junior golf, college golf… even just club level golf - there is such an opening here for someone who gets it. While people are surely very interested in the pro’s, I find that I am more compelled to watch when its NOT the pros.

daleheck · July 17, 2013, 4:00pm

I agree KH,
I downgraded my cable TV package to no longer include TGC since I found it incredibly boring,
only exception is when they would air specials on Trevino or other past greats and events, got Jacks 1st Major the 1962 US open on DVR and have watched it over and over ! , also the occasional airing of a Shell WW of golf series.was cool to watch…other then that… no thanks…

Dale

kevinhutto · July 22, 2013, 6:56pm

One of the talkers on Morning drive this morning… Matt Ginella said that Mickleson is in the top 10 of all time - but that Bobby Jones and Ben Hogan are not because there wasn’t enough competition back then… I just wonder how some of these guys even get on tv…

flatlies · July 24, 2013, 5:48am

Flat out wrong and has not idea of perspective with comparison to the easier to hit equipment. Funny, he probably thinks his handicap is accurate with 9 sweet spots and a self correcting ball. If anything he has it opposite. Greens and conditions are better now, making ball striking less important with an easier to hit ball with an easier to hit club. Players can mask their lack of skill with short game now more than ever with improved conditions and new wedges. They won all those tournament for the same reason Tiger has, they were that much better than their competition. Fucking stupid, not a difficult argument in debate class.

flatlies · July 24, 2013, 5:51am

Guess thats why he is on golf channel and not playing persimmon, blades, and balata. In case anyone thinks i am full of it, this guy can challenge me any course as long as we use pre 1950 persimmon, blades, and I will cut him a bread using tour balata golf balls. Lets see how good he thinks he is.

flatlies · July 24, 2013, 6:00am

Bobby Jones 66, 68 at Sunningdale 1926

by Addington Arnie » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:28 pm

Nice article in a recent UK magazine:

If Bobby Jones could have one shot again then it might well be his tee shot on the 13th of the Old Course at Sunningdale on June 16, 1926.

Agonisingly, he let it slip off line and the ball rolled into a greenside bunker from where he splashed out and holed his putt for a par. Not that agonising then, but only because you fail to see the context into which this mild aberration is set.

That day, Jones completed the Old course in 66 shots with 33 on the front nine, 33 on the back, 33 putts and 33 other shots. A delightful symmetry in numbers, but an even more delightful feat to have witnessed in person because Jones didn’t mishit a single shot (apart from the one on the aptly numbered 13th).

His biographer, OB Keeler, wrote later that his man had neither a two nor a five on his card. The course was listed at 6,472 yards, but this was an Open Qualifier and it was playing much longer off some new back tees. If a player today had used the same clubs that Bobby Jones required in 1926, then he would be covering a distance of around 8,400 yards. Now do you see why following route 66 was definitely in the fast lane?

It is, without question, one of the most famous rounds of golf in the history of the game. A near perfect round on a near perfect course. For as Jones will never be forgotten, neither will the venue that day. This was the round that put Sunningdale on the map.

Re: Bobby Jones 66, 68 at Sunningdale 1926

by lagpressure » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:16 pm

It’s all the fairway wood and long iron approaches that make this so remarkable. People yawn at 66 and 68 today because guys are hitting wedges into every par four or short irons. Par 5’s are now par 4’s compared to this era so a 68 today is really even par and that is still wedging into the par 4’s.

People need to be re educated about this game. Proper golf requires all the irons, short, mid, and long to be hit into par 4’s. That is why par 4’s were created in various lengths so that the players would be tested correctly and have to hit their approach shots with a variety of trajectories also.

These great players did so much for the game. Left us some of the greatest golf courses (like Augusta) and beautiful properties for us to play on… yet they are so disrespected by the actions of the governors of the game.

Thanks for posting.

I am with Lag, this uneducated golfer is like the ones that think Michael Jordan is not the best. Wrong and dumb, trying to make money

flatlies · July 24, 2013, 6:11am

This stuff pisses me off with the modern better than the past, this guy has no idea what he is talking about.

6,694 yard at 7 over with persimmon, blades, and balata for Hogan to win. Merion played between 7,600 and 8,000 in that day converted to modern equipment standards compared in modern equipment, depending on estimates. This year it played at less than 7,000 with more forgiving equipment, self correcting balls, and soft conditions. If you prefer the opposite, it played 5,950 to 5,600 compared to Hogans day with modern equipment. A joke when you think about it, the modern guys are no comparison to the great. Laughing from their graves. Give me a break, the guys in the past would run circles around the modern guys, I mishit straight ball all the time. Easy boys game compared to the mans game it use to be. Lag and Two, thanks for being man enough to call them out.

lagpressure · July 24, 2013, 7:39am

Well,

I have said this a few times before… but it’s easy to prove.
While we can’t pull the greats of the past from their graves and give them modern gear to play… we can give the modern players the old stuff and put them on a course with thick rough and poor agronomy. I’ve given good modern players blades and persimmon and they usually shoot about 10 shots worse. While they would adjust some over time… I don’t see them shooting anywhere near what they have been used to shooting.

In the first TRGA event in Las Vegas a few years back… one of the contestants had just won a mini tour event… he used my 59 Dynas and shot 88.

A 16 year old shot 59 recently in an event. I don’t think he is doing that with persimmon, blades and balata.

kevinhutto · July 24, 2013, 7:32pm

What is interesting to me is that they have a bunch of hacks on that show (aside from Rymer) who cant break 80 talking about things they do not understand. Guys like them have no idea what its like to play good golf back in the 80’s with wooden woods and real blades - not rocket blades.

flatlies · July 27, 2013, 5:56am

Need is something I have posted here before and agree with Hogan on this, pay more per place for less places to make players play better. Pay the top 10, if you are not in it, get better your not good enough. I have no sympathy for players, I have outworked everyone I have ever come in contact with at my job. I have put in 350+ days a year at 50-60 per week for over 4 years straight in the shop, not including 10+ hours doing lessons, meetings, and the work of lazy staff that lay out of work. I know what the human limit is for work as I push it every month out of necessity. The pros now have no clue, Hogan said you have to live like a hermit to get enough rest, I challenge any of you to give me a player that has the willpower and fortitude to do the same. Poulter is one of my favorites because of where he came from but give me a break, add a clown on #18 at the British Open. You are a multimillionaire and if you are not good enough for conditions you should improve. You will not go down as one of the greatest ever because you did not sacrifice everything to get there. Spend 12-16 hours a day working on golf for the next 10 years, only leaving enough time for sleep then you can complain.

Players have forgotten that old pros could not eat or buy gas if they did not play well. If I take a week vacation I do not get paid. Do I bitch like Poulter to my boss. NO, I would not have a job if I did. South Carolina is a right to work state and things like this do not fly, you will lose your job within a week. Not a question of fair like the pros seem to make it, I am happy to have and job and happy for the opportunity to pay my bills. They forgot hunger, not a good feeling to choose gas or food. No insurance with my job either, that comes after at least 10 years of constantly improving performance. You have to be HUNGRY to make it in the golf business. Pros now are such an inferior version of the men it use to take to play this sport.

robbo · July 27, 2013, 7:38am

Flat - I can relate to everything you’re saying but some of the denegration of any and all on TGC is absurd. Good lord - that channel is about bringing in viewers and making money. That they bow down to current players and not the guys from the 60’s and 70’s is understandable and good marketing. Purists can see if for what it is, but to think that Michael Breed or Frank Nobilo or Brandle Chamblee are going to say that modern players suck is absurd.

I’m in the same camp as John and many others who grew up playing in the 70’s and 80’s with the older gear and can respect what they could do with the soft ball and the persimmon drivers and forged blades of the day. I just don’t get the constant degradation of the talking heads who have to relate the players of today with the game of today.

Leave a place in your head and heart for the older stuff, but understand that the commentators of today need to relate to today’s audience, or there would be no Golf Channel!

Robbo

flatlies · July 30, 2013, 6:44am

I agree with everything you said robbo, and went back through my post. They did come off somewhat like that. Like many shows on the Golf Channel and did not say I was against it, I specifically disagree with the guy speaking of Hogan and Jones. The pros now are the best in the world and ever with modern equipment, would beat me with ease. He is defending modern players, I am defending classic players. My point was them bowing down to modern players as the best era ever and the best to play the game is the issue I had. Are modern bodybuilders better than the past, from an absolute physical size standpoint yes but you have to account for the massively increased amount of the drugs they use to take and 20 new drugs more on top of that. Much like golf it use to be an exact art. Now big always wins instead of a mix like it use to of size, clarity, symmetry. One muscle bigger than the rest, no matter just make each as big as you can. Just like golf they invented more and more steroids to get you big in different ways and combine them all. Modern equipment is the steroids of golf. Player at the club thinks he is good, went to play with him. On all 3 par fives in 2. Gap wedge sand wedge or lob wedge into every hole except 2. 190 yard par 3s, 7 irons. Thinks he is the man for shooting one under, and laughs at persimmon and blades when he hits them bad. Does not matter to him because he hits it 320 with modern. Two would shoot the same score with modern or vintage equipment, skills do not translate both ways. Read that again, wedges and par 5s in 2 at one under. Obviously if he had pro skills at 100 and in with a good putter it would have been 64 or better, but it is not because he does not NEED those skills. If he was hitting vintage equipment his accuracy would drop, forcing him to develop those skills to get better at wedging and putting by the NEED to do those well to score. Drivers all day because players are always talking to him about how long he is.

Think the pros now would adjust to the old equipment, but not all. You would have the greatest rivalries like they use to, Rory, Tiger, Mickelson. Great eras up til modern equipment use to come in 3 top players or more. The best would rise and the inferior would fall is my point. Besides pre 2005 Tiger there have been no absolute best of the best you must watch ball strikers since Faldo, Norman, and Price. Rory is up there, but the modern equipment takes away his ball striking advantage. Peter O Malley, one of the straightest most solid hitters in the last 20 years retiring because his competitive advantage has been taken away.

My point with the last post is do not complain about conditions, modern players have the time and means to put in the work. If you do not put in the work do not complain. Not enough sunlight in the day for the shots you need said Ben Hogan, according to the guy on Golf Channel a player outside of the top 10 ever. Hogan did this and if any golfer that is trying to go pro now with the distance to compete did this they would be top 20 within 10 years. aa.usno.navy.mil/cgi-bin/aa_durtablew.pl. Daylight hours in Orlando, again not such a mystery how Hogan got there. They are living the way every working stiff dreams about, like Phil complaining that taxes are too high when you make over 40,000,000 a year is what amateur players have issue with. Do like Tiger, move to a no income tax state. Hes not exempt, he complained about course slowing down every round of British, Phil adjusted fine. Just like Lag writing about the Canadian Open being tough then they cut the rough because of player complaints. Tail wagging the dog.

flatlies · July 30, 2013, 6:47am

o , o , ORLANDO, FLORIDA Astronomical Applications Dept.
Location: W081 23, N28 32 Eastern Standard Time U. S. Naval Observatory
Washington, DC 20392-5420

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lagpressure · July 30, 2013, 6:34pm

The human collective consciousness seems to work very slowly. Too slow for me… but it does move. 5 years ago when I first started bringing up some of these points about how the game has changed etc, there was basically no one discussing this stuff.
No one was hitting persimmon, and it was the same dismissive argument that “things change” yada yada.

I would say now that we are quite often hearing about the state of the game… and there is discussion about the direction and pros and cons of the old game vs the new game.

Mostly I blame players my age… my generation. They are still young enough to score and play impressively with appropriate gear. Their kids are the new generation 20 somethings blasting the frying pans 340. They didn’t pass on the old game to the next generation.

Golfers can’t seem to step aside from their own egos and look at golf objectively… and the powers in place, equipment companies etc, have exploited this human trait to no end.

The Senior players who did pass on the game to my generation… have embraced the new gear for the same reasons… simply put, they like hitting the ball as far as they used to. “My swing is not as good, I don’t practice as much as I used to… but I hit the ball just a far or maybe even longer, and I still shoot the same scores”.

It all just perpetuates itself.

But I am seeing a bit of… “I didn’t think about that” with a lot of the older players as they see the kids wedging into all the par 4’s, and playing the 5 pars as four pars… and shooting 59 on what used to be a par 72. A 59 in reality is only 9 under.
The greens are near perfect with most public courses having better greens than the Masters did 40 years ago.

But there is more and more discussion.

This game needs to fracture into two games. I say this mainly because it is the only option for pro players to walk their talk. As of now… there is no where to go as far a competition.

The TRGA events Vic and I put on a while back showed the potential for change both in the gear and rules with promising results. But the surprising issue to me was the lack of support from my generation. I suppose a lot of my peers feared the embarrassment of shooting 80 with gear they used to shoot 68 with. There is a re education that needs to take place, and most are not willing to do that if there is only one event a year. But if you throw a bit of dough out there… that can change their minds quickly.

Players need a reason to validate what they are doing.

There is interest out there for funding a tour. I know… and I did get a few bites… at least through the office doors of a few movers who could make it happen. But I suspect that once they started talking about it with their friends at the CC, they got laughed at etc… and most are at a stage in their lives when it’s just easier to take the less stressful road and just enjoy their retirement.

In a capitalist society, it will happen when it makes sense financially. At this point I think it’s premature unless an angel investor who is motivated only by principal gets involved. However these things do happen…

robbo · August 5, 2013, 4:30am

Flat - no doubt you and I are on the same page. I guess I was just trying to justify why you hear what you hear from the announcers on TGC. They simply aren’t able to bite the hand that feeds them. If I hear about one more 8-iron from 200 yards out I think I’m going to barf, but I best get the bag ready because I know I’ll hear that if I watch any golf on TV next week!

John - I can’t tell you how disappointed some of was were that the last TRGA event didn’t come off as planned. I know there is a contingent of golfers in their 40’s and 50’s who can still remember what it was like to play a balata that would go out of round in 2 holes and have to watch that thing just curve all over the place, who still long for those days and the challenge that went with it. We do a casual persimmon/blade thing here every year and, to a man, the reaction is “why the F don’t we do this all the time”! (or something like that).

$ talks and I dare say that we just aren’t going to be able to get all the horses back in the barn. If nothing else practicing and playing with the P&B’s will only help someone hit the modern stuff better, and those of us that still have an occasional event that requires using persimmon, blades, and balata still get to enjoy what so many others are missing.

robbo

lagpressure · August 5, 2013, 8:02am

Vic Wilk is now Butch Harmon’s right hand man… so he just isn’t able to come up with the time to help work the TRGA event. I know a lot of people were disappointed we didn’t have an event this year, but my feeling is if I am going to do it myself, it will be here in the Bay Area and not Vegas. Most of my roots and connections are in So Cal, but I am not opposed to doing another event up here. Ideally I would like to have a few $$$ to dangle in front of the guys to get them to commit and show up. I don’t think it should be a novelty event. It should be a legitimate serious competition with some real money and pressure to play for. I have a few ideas and am sure we will do something with it again.