It is degrees left of the target and Trackman does calculate where the Target is. You usually just find a flagstick, input into Trackman that it’s your target and then it measures the clubhead/clubface dimensions and the ball flight when the shot is hit.
3JACK
Trackman indeed has an inbuilt camera that requires the target to be identified before shot making commences.
I’m into module 3 right now and I’m just getting started up into it. I’ve been fighting sinus problems. M3 is a workout and I didn’t really feel like doing it when my sinuses are really bothering me.
In Trackman terms, I believe M3 is really working on the golfer’s Horizontal swing plane (it also works on the golfer’s extension post impact). This is important because when we get done with M1 and M2, we usually have our old ‘release’ where we ‘swing out to the right’ and that moves the path out to the right as well which helps create a hook spin or helps with a push.
After M2 my shots were mostly either dead straight at the target, a push-draw or a straight-push.
I believe that in Trackman terms, M3 gets the HSP moving leftward which now takes that inside-to-out path and makes it more square. One poster asked me on LTLGL thread about having an issue with hitting his longer irons and woods because they get some slice spin. I mentioned that he should follow the Hogan stance diagram in 5-Lessons because of D-Plane.
I tried M3 in my full swing for my first time and found the same issues. HIt the irons very well, even with a slight draw, but the longer irons and especially the driver I struggled with the slice. I got it straightened out, so here are some things I noticed:
I had an open clubface at address. This is probably due to me subconsciously trying to counter the hook. Once I stopped opening the clubface at address, much improvement was made.
I wonder if Lag did it like this on purpose or not, but I truly believe that Module 2 sets up Module 3. I first noticed this awhile back when I was just in Module 2. I noticed that when I did M2 correctly , my finish sort of resembled Lag’s ‘abbreviated’ finish. I wondered at the time if it was just a coincidence or if M2 produces that tiype of finish or if there was more behind it. But going into M3, I quickly noticed that the finish Lag has was fully intended. Now, I’m not saying that I would have M3 done correctly just by doing M2, but when I did M2 *correctly *, my followthru and finish would resemble Lag’s M3 work. After today, I noticed that and firmly believe that you really need to do M2 well in order to execute M3 well. I don’t think any of the great ballstrikers who used ‘swinging left’ also had poor foot action.
Anyway, this certainly beats the old ball flight laws which would tell me that my problems were solely path related. Instead, it’s a bit of a combination of both and with ABS, I can figure how to correct both of them.
3JACK
Richie
It was me having issues with the long irons and driver. Just in the last couple of days I have it figured out too that my left hand grip was too weak leading to an open face. My main practice club for the drills and hitting lots of balls at my home range is an old spalding 3 iron in which I have set the grip reminder at 5.00 O’clock like reportedly Hogan did. I basically carry over that grip to the course. After discussion with you I backed off saying you cant immulate Hogan to the letter. He obviously had one of the fastest M1.
Regading the connection between M1 and M2 I have posted elsewhere in the private forum that M2 lays the ground work for M3 because with proper M2 application, the moving club has to involve the torso.
Another question related to D plane is about progressive offset in modern clubs. Will that allow a golfer to address along the target line with every club???
Macs, did you find that the stance adjustments (that Richie suggested) helped you with straightening out your long iron and driver shots?
Iron
It did to some extent. With driver and long irons it is still tricky. We know you can close your stance but it is not totally easy to swing on that plan partly because in my case your path has to be into the lake and that is not a visual I am comfortable with yet.
Thanks macs,
I was having similar objections to this solution. I also feel it doesn’t allow me to take dead aim at the target…
I believe that you have to go with what you can consistently do, just the D-Plane/Trackman stuff can help explain what’s happening and when things go awry and you can’t turn them around, the D-Plane stuff is a good place to start so you can say ‘okay, here’s what I’m doing at impact, now what is causing my path/clubface/lowpoint to do that?’
I recommended the stance diagram to Macs because I thought long and hard about why Hogan did use that stance diagram and he probably swung more left than anybody. Then combine that with most of Lag’s students saying that they hit a hook after M1 and M2, but then straighten it out after M3 but some struggled with fades/slices after M3 with the longer clubs, it made a lot of sense to me why Hogan did what he did.
I will say this, most of the greatest drivers of the ball that I have either studied, watched live or whatever…from great drivers who were historically great golfers to those who were great drivers of the ball but just amateur golfers…most of them did it with a closed stance. My friend’s uncle was a really exceptional ballstriker, but a super driver of the ball back in the day of persimmon. Later on he lost his ability to hit irons really well, but remained a great driver of the ball. I remember people used to marvel at how he could do it with a closed stance. Now understanding D-Plane, it makes sense to me that he was able to be a great driver and do it with a closed stance. Unfortunately he passed away a few years ago. But when he was on, he was something else.
3JACK
Good points R3J, (by the way, I really enjoyed your interview on GothamGolfBlog)
Something I really like about the Hogan stance diagram is what it promotes (for me that is):
Question: I hear he used to set up square to the ball and then just pull his right/rear foot back for the woods. Does this mean that he kept his hips and shoulders relatively square?
I don’t think so. Tough to aim right and still naturally have the rest of the body square to the target. I mean, you can do it, but I think it’s usually something that is forced.
When I’m really trying to hit a hook, I have to aim right in order to get the path well right of the clubface. So what I do is just pull the right foot back. Now, if I’m trying to hit a slice, I pull the left foot back. But hopefully I don’t get too many of those shots.
3JACK
Richie
do you think that progressive offset on modern clubs allow you to have a square stance with all the clubs.
Also I have heard everyone has a favourite club (in my case the 8 iron). I now believe that this is usually the club that sets up with a square set up. What is your square set up club. I would think the better your swing dynamics are the longer this club will be e.g a 5 iron.
offset is there to help hackers. It not only gets the ball up in the air easier, but makes it harder for the golfer to slice the ball. I know if I hit offset, even if it’s progressive offset, I’ll likely struggle with some hooks. Most slicers slice the ball because they have a very wide open clubface. So the OEM club designers figured if they could create a club that was harder to open the clubface, the golfer would slice less. What usually happens with these hackers is that the face is so wide open at impact, almost any path will wind up still being left of the face.
I see what you’re thinking. If we aim square with our stance and body with a 3-iron, we are more likely to see the path go left and hit a slice. Thus we need to get the clubface going left so we can at least hit a pull-fade. With a 7-iron which has less offset, if we aim square we are lightly to see the path go right and hit a hook so we need less offset.
Still, I don’t think progressive offset allows the golfer to aim square and hit it straight. I think it might allow for them to aim straight and hit a pull-fade with longer irons and a push-draw with shorter irons.
3JACK
Richie
I havent found a place in Edmonton who have the Trackman. I have been tinkering and thinking with the angles a bit with some success. This is what I have come for an aptimum club path through impact. This is from the golfers view at address and I aim to hit the ball straight and miss both tees; the shorter one to avoid an OTT move and the longer one to avoid a swing to right field. On the range I stick two tees like that. I think this is the ABS arc of approach. First contact from inside ---- separation exit left. What are your thoughts. Also the divot from a perfect 6 iron.
That’s a pretty good drill to do IMO. For the most part, if you take a divot with an iron, the divot has to go to the left to some degree in order to have a path that is square to the target. Unless you’re somebody like Moe, whose attack angle was very minute so he had to swing out to the right to square up his path. That took me awhile to figure that out when I got back into the game in 2009. I’d hit a straight shot and see a divot going left a bit. But D-Plane and Trackman explain what happens there.
Today I was hitting high hooks with the driver out of the blue. Eventually I figured out that was closing the clubface a bit with the driver and my path was probably going well out to the right today as I was throwing the arms too much off the body today.
To me, it’s the beauty of understanding D-Plane, the Trackman research and findings and ABS. In the past I would’ve been concerned about the issue because I didn’t know what the issues were at impact. Now I know what’s going on at impact and from there I can apply the ABS principles to figure out what’s causing those impact conditions. For me, I eventually went on the range and figured that it was a bit of an aiming issue and that was causing my face to get closed at address (then at impact) and the path to go well out to the right. Plus, I wasn’t getting enough Module 2 going correctly. It also helped that I figured this out by hitting my Apex PC 2-iron that has a very stiff shaft in it. Makes the game a lot more fun and a lot less stressful.
3JACK
I never got a very pronounced hook with my module 1 last year and kind of doubted the notion of M1 being a hook move and M3 being a slice move. But this past week I had a severe low back spasm and guess what started hitting some wicked hooks as I could not put any serious M3 action going.
PS: I have almost totally got rid of my constant fade/slice by making my left hand grip stronger. Takes some time mentally to get out of the mold and as aresult am missing to the left now.
I think Lag assumes most of the students who come into ABS will be swinging out to the right and having those arms flying off the body.
Basically, it didn’t surprise me to hear tat golfers were developing hooks off of M1 and M2 because given they were using the same ‘swing out to the right’ motion, the path will move out to the right if they doing M1/M2 correctly. M3 isn’t a slice move if done right. It just gets the path moving back more to square.
I believe that pivot powered swings control the clubface, clubpath and low point much better than an armsy swing. You really can’t ‘swing left’ and have plenty of right arm thru impact unless that pivot is powering the swing. I think D-Plane and the effects on the ball that ABS golfers go thru really shows that the pivot powered swing and ‘swinging left’ is realy the way to go for great, consistent ballstriking.
3JACK
Getting a handle on module #1 and then applying module #2 is simply what allows module #3 to work.
I banged around about this for a long time in my head before designing this course, and based upon the lesser of two evils, I put module #1 first, rather than module #3.
If I started with students on module #3, results would of course vary, but in general they would be more often damaging. Without the proper support, and having a place to anchor opposing forces, it would be just more of what hackers are doing, and even good players would not be getting the benefit they should.
I agree. I need to get onto M3. But with my sinuses acting up and an injury to a left shoulder (I slipped and fell on it over a month ago) I really haven’t gotten into the practice of the M3 exercise. A couple of weeks ago I tried to just do M3 in the swing without doing the exercise so my shoulder wouldn’t bother me. It didn’t bother me, but I couldn’t stop hitting a slice. I asked a student about m3 and he said he tried the same thing, but then later found that you really have to practice the M3 exercise and then it almost gets ingrained correctly into your swing. I noticed that when I do M2 right, M3 almost happens naturally.
One of the big things that looking at Trackman taught me was that basically any golfer needs to control the following well:
And then do it with a good, dynamic pivot.
Reading the Trackman reports it’s easy to see the trend…the better the ballstriker, the better they control those 3 aspects. I had believed for a long time that the pivot was the lifeblood of the golf swing, but couldn’t figure out exactly why. Finally from reading the Trackman reports, I saw the trends of good ballstrikers vs. poor ballstrikers. I could understand how a good pivot controls the clubface better. But from studying ABS and looking at the Trackman reports, I can see why a good pivot action controls the path and the low point better.
So the easy part becomes understanding impact and its effect on the ball. The tougher part is figuring out what works best for you to control those 3 aspects consistently. And then the most difficult part IMO is to execute.
3JACK
Just wanted to pass on two new shots I have in my bag that I didn’t have before following this thread…So thanks 3J!
The fade from the fairway bunker…I used to be able to pull this shot off less than 50% of the time. Now with the toe turned in and swinging left through & post impact, the heel catches much less often for me.
Also the same applies to the shot with ball way below my feet and need a fairly decent carry in the air. I used to be very conservative with this shot and play a toed-in, toe wrap over the heel, 5-iron draw. Now I’m not afraid to use a wood, toe it in and hit a fade.
Maybe some others are finding new shots too.
[quoteOne of the big things that looking at Trackman taught me was that basically any golfer needs to control the following well:
[/quote]
I could not agree more with that. I think being at M6 my club path and the use of pivot were reasonably OK since a while. But from this thread I learned the importance of club face and now working on Low point.
Had some kind of a breakthrough round today (for me anyway). Had a back nine start and shot 7 pars a bogey and a double for a 39. I could see the double bogey was because I did not adjust my 6 iron’s low point for a downhill lie and skulled it into the lake.
The front nine at my course is the easier one and if not for a triple at the par 3, 8th which was the second last hole for me ( for the same skulled shot into the lake) I was going to shoot a 77 instead of 81. No birdies ; 33 putts. Thanks Richie.