Someone in the know please explain to me why swinging flatter is better. IMO, there is no such thing as a single plane golf swing as the club shaft address plane is not the same as the plane created by the lead arm/hands at the top of the swing (from DTL). At some point, the hands must return the club to on or near the original address plane. I can see the argument that with swinging flatter, the hands have a smaller distance to travel to return to the address plane. What else am I missing as we see differing shaft planes ranging from Hogan to Matt Wolff ?
The reason for a flatter backswing allows the player to consistently deliver the clubhead on a shallower plane for the recreational player. Too shallow is always better than too steep. Your contact will be more consistent because you’re skimming the surface versus trying to “stick the landing”. If your contact is consistent, you can play that shot for the round. If you contact is erratic, you’ll have too many misses to account for.
Swing plane is individual, your gear has a lot to do with it. Your body is the other half.
We like flat gear here, really flat. We believe it allows you to impart correct pressures through the strike. If gear is too upright, we cannot deliver the club from the 430 path, shaft plane above golf ball(dtl)…orbit pull.
We believe that a steep plane, leads to timing. We dont like timing the strike. We like to dynamic ally aiming at targets, to be more “present” on each shot.
You cannot do that if you are static and playing with super light, upright modern equipment. You become more machine like, robotic almost…playing golf swing vs. Playing golf. Not to say all players are like that…but it does seem more prevalence than the players we watch and look up to. Hogan, Snead, Knudson, Trevino, etc. to name a few.
The basic physics of the modern clubs, simply wont allow your wrists and forearms to achieve the desired flexion and extension…nor do they have the weighting to deliver the club from the 430 path, without post impact flip.
Hope this helps. Lag probably has an analogy he can share…
Generally, the higher cap recreational players seem to take it back flat and come over the top. Not to be argumentative, but it seems you can “stick the landing” if you can return the club to the original address plane. ABS seems to favor more body rotation to square the clubface as employed by Hogan and Snead. Lots of golfers (specially older players) also have mobility issues which may preclude them from using ABS method.
Thanks - curious as to who you think are the better ball strikers in the modern era on the Tours (since 2000 or so) ? I would think as well the modern player can get to the 4:30 path with modern equipment if they can return the club to the original address plane. I do agree that rotation can square the club and eliminate the flip/timing issues associated with a swinger technique. Jim Hardy seems to a good job of separating what he calls the RIT (right arm inward throw) players from the LOP (left arm outward throw).
Same as swingers vs hitters with RIT being like ABS ?
I cant say i like any of the modern guys…but its more the equipment than anything. It forces your hand.
I dont like sergios attitude, but hes the best ive seen in slow mo.
I think will wilcox is as close to trevino as you can get with modern gear.
Brad Hughes motion is as solid as it gets. Mito P, surprised me, but still doesnt maintain shaft angle past impact. Same with J. Nieman.
Tons of talent…but i wouldnt teach any of these techniques unless you want to live on the range.
Everyone talks about morikowa, but he requires timing too. Jordan Spieth might " stumble" onto hitters technique eventually. Hes working towards that for sure.
Hope that isnt too negative…lol.
Tigers 2000s iron game and technique is classic “switter”, and best modern swing in the game. Anthony Kim would be even better if he continued to play…best modern technique i saw up close…machine!
David Duvals old action was elite too…his new release is flip city though.
I could keep going, but ill stop.
Bradley Hughes’ student Brendon Todd is top 10 in driving accuracy. But he’s not that good for GIR.
Zaltoris reverse c is popping its ugly head. I believe he does the orbit pull but needs to move morelike Knudson into finish
“Sticking the landing” means the hands have to flip both figuratively and literally to square the face and that’s where the inconsistency comes into play. If the player took the club back flat and delivered it flat - they would be more consistent, however, because of the “hit” instinct the body wants to start rotating before shallowing the club and arms (steep). You could take it back steep ala Matt Wolff, but most find it easier to preset the feeling for where you want to be in the downswing like greasing the groove. If you fire aka shallow the hands to a set stopping point aka square relative to your pivot, rotating through impact takes care of the rest. You have a square clubface and a consistent low point in your square. Those two aspects are what defines a great ballstriker. You can be square, but produce inconsistent contact (fat/thin). You can have good contact, but spray the ball all over the map.
IMO, his limited right hip depth on the BS a la Koepka, Jason Day might be one cause of the issue in his back.
Thanks for the detailed list - I would think Rory would fit the ABS mold to some degree with his amount of body rotation.
I’m sold on a pivot-driven swing - just not sold on the idea that it can’t be accomplished with modern (and lighter equipment), From my vantage point, Rory seems to mirror what I know about ABS (which isn’t much) - rotation driven swing, flatter backswing plane. I’d be curious about his lie angles as I would with Kuchar.
I think the equipment is debatable at times. Yes heavy helps. But guys on tour now are pivoting and cutting the corner hard left with a super stable clubface. When the body is in good positions. Good things happen. At any level
Its the offset that really matters…hurts more when its feather light
Very very few people do this from a DTL perspective, including pros. Most golfers return the club above the plane of the club at address.
Rory doesn’t have an ABS style release, but great rotation and speed. My 2 cents
And for the equipment, you can use the lightweight stuff. I’ve found adding weight was the best equipment change I’ve ever made. Would never go back! No one’s forcing you - do what works for you.
Kuchar appears like he swings flat but he’s actually very steep and flips though the hitting area
No worries - just trying to understand the differences between ABS and other methods. If you added weight to your driver, how did it affect your swing speed and distance ?
As for returning to the original address plane, I should have said on or slightly above.
I’m a 120 ss person with a modern driver. I haven’t had it measured with the vintage gear, which is what I almost always use. I don’t notice much difference in distance when I add weight to drivers. Going from modern to vintage, you’ll obviously lose distance. Dubious posted an article when the distance loss between driver heads 26 grams apart in weight was only 3-4 yards. I’m sure there’s other studies somewhere on it.
For me, the more I hit the ball out of the center with some level of distance and trajectory control, the more I enjoy the game. So, when I experiment with drivers, I don’t validate it on a launch monitor. I go out and play. With the heavier clubs, I tend to hit the ball much better - better contact, fewer hooks, easier to take something off it, etc… I don’t make a decision on a launch monitor based on the numbers it spits out. I’ve done that and usually regret it.
Heavy clubs are great to play. I play 67 gram grips and usually add between half an ounce to an ounce of weight to the club head. Would never go back. I hit it pretty well with next to no practice, and I think that’s partly due to the heavy clubs. Not saying I’m some amazing striker, but for a recreational player, it works.