Student of mine- showing some great form

[nicehitsam]

@twomasters

Saeed
As perfect as that impact bag looks I would try have some give in it- some room around the edges. Looks very firm without give in it. Heavy but soft . The clubhead needs a little room to work into. If it is too packed and firm the club will bounce and jar your hands and wrists and arm

Thanks for the feed back and your advice. Sorry for just now replying Ijust saw your reply. Ihave redone my bag and it is alot more lighter and not as packed, has alot more give to it when I strike it so thanks alot.

P.S. Just getting started with Mod three weeks in and I had a injury Saturday I strained a muscle in the groin area,adductors I believe,been iceing it down all week , did some heat packs a couple of days now I got it wrapped and doing some mild stretches for inner thigh and its feeling mucher better.Oh I did this swing my driver, if you ave any suggestion on my rehab it would greatly be appreciated.

[nicehitsam]

@flatlies

Much play here has kept me off of the site for the last week, just ask Two about April and May tournaments at Pebble Creek. 5 tournaments in 6 days starting tom. He might have had a 59 here from the senior tees during one such tournament 2 years ago, called a bluff on a bet by the members.

The impact bag here he made has carpet in it, he has also said towels can work. I will confirm again that he moduled much here for doubters, think it is good to know that he was specific with his motions. The points that stand out to me were that he liked to work module 1 and 3 with right and left hand individually along with combined, he would work the weaker more to catch it up. “Right arm stays pinned” like a record player for module 1, look at Hogan. Specific to make sure the hands started left correctly on module 3, make sure the body rips left into upward PV5 while training module 2. He was specific with how the knees function in tandem with the free ride down for module 6. Will post more as I think of them.

Hey Saeed, glad your here. There is a founders club 1 iron we use here Two made for module 1, 10 degrees flat. You can become a player with modules 1-3. Module 3 is my favorite and I think the ultimate must have for accurate ball striking when training to be a hitter. When you do the modules be specific with training, much like a weight lifter can do bench press and work chest, front shoulders, or triceps. All are worked but different variations put more strain on each. Lag and Two are specific, the details matter.

Thanks flatlies for the info I will pay much more attention to detail and check on that 1iron with two. thanks again.

[flatlies]

I am not meaning to delay video, but have not been on the course to hit in a while due to work. I am going to post some new purchases on here in the next week, but one has my attention. Got a set of the original Macgregor M85 irons, they are the thickest and heaviest blade I have. Overall and swingweight. Does anyone else have a set of these and play them, they are from the early 50s. They are thick leading to trailing edge but also on the topline. They are short from top to bottom, no bounce, sharp, and about 4 degrees flat when I got them.

[ABSinThailand]

50’s era clubs are pretty much non-existent here in Thailand. Even filling my impact bag here needed legwork and imagination as almost all houses have tiled floors and real carpet is expensive so any leftover carpet is not binned but re-used (to make mats to sell (again not cheap), etc).

I have not got any M85’s but they appear pretty much identical to these Double Eagle (flying B) (three star) American Tournament Model that I picked up cheap from back in the UK. This set is , “heavy”. e.g. the 5 iron is 16.3 ounces, the 9 iron is 16.95, all without any lead tape added. No offset. They have TT Rocket Green shafts. Unfortunately no background info on them. Not ABS’d them fully yet as waiting until I have a better idea of what to set(s) to use to after Mod 3 (currently on Mod 1). Using a different set (Hogan PC’s) weighted to Lag’s Spec and flattened to 6* flat for now.

Back to the bag…
ABSinTH.

[flatlies]

Almost the same Thailand, they look like the ball does not have a chance with that much mass. Sounds like you are set up well for ABS with Hogan PC, I have been hitting those for a few months. Do not know if you have heard the history on those clubs, but they were not the most popular when the came out. Tour pros liked the clubs, but many clubs pro and good amateurs had difficulty hitting them. They can be hard to learn, but what you learn hitting them is perfect for ABS. These irons were made with a straight leading edge from heel to toe, making the hard to hit for anyone that flipped early along with the design of the weight making it more difficult to get the ball up. They are some of the best made. Stick with it, module 3 is my favorite.

[ABSinThailand]

Thanks Flat. Love the PCs but not keen on so much lead on the backs to get them up to weight spec as it spoils the clean looks. For now, form and function over looks. Not found a problem getting it up yet (hold off on the comments Captain Chaos and others) but yes, you sure know when you miss the sweet spot by too much. Hopefully ABS training will get me connecting with the sweet spot a lot more often.

[flatlies]

Not that you ask for advice, but always form and function over looks. This is golf, lowest score wins not best looking clubs. Look at golf as a business and you have a boss, he will like you more if you shoot 65 more than 68. I know there are a lot of players out there that like the look of their clubs, I and many players here will beat them. I have friends that dress well and do not go home with the girl, same thing. You can play or you can’t. Clubs are tools for a specific job, nothing more. Do not get attached. Somebody said I have not seen Hogans in many years and if you had new clubs you would not need all that lead tape. I said you are right, the game has gone wrong. It is a wonder why the player that liked lead tape and heavier clubs was the one with his name on them. Same reason Nicklaus, Penna, and Burke use to be on the club design staff Macgregor. Now it is scientist this, engineer that, but nobody that can stike the ball with the best 50 ever. It is like learning how to throw a football from the guy that designed the football instead of Peyton Manning, or learning how to hit from the guy that designed the pads instead of Ray Lewis. Stupid.

Do not want to offend, but Two has kicked my ass with a beat up shit set. I know that Lag would do the same. Good players respect game, not brands showing without lead tape beacause you want someone to know that you play Hogans or Macgregors. You are an ABSer and are still caught up on what has caused this modern game. Impressing the person you are playing with. I am not calling you out, and hope you change your mind about the looks of clubs mattering. Two played persimmon in the Presidents Cup, Langer plays beat up Hogan 3 to 5 irons.

[ABSinThailand]

OUCH! However, my own fault for posting at 2am and submitting a comment that obviously was ambiguous.

Advice is always welcome.

I agree: ALWAYS form and function over looks.

What I meant by my “for now” comment was that if both form and function are equally met, then I will likely choose the club set that I feel most comfortable with, and to me, all else being equal, a nicely designed club without added lead tape looks better than one with (and has less risk of a change weight part way around the course due to the, albeit unlikely, incident of the lead coming off) and may just give me a slight boost (even if only psychologically) and therefore I would possibly play better due to that comfort and confidence.

As far as Lag, Two, or indeed you, beating me with a “beat up shit set”, I have no doubt that currently that is extremely likely. That is why I am here learning how to ideally get good enough to offer up a decent challenge if we should ever be lucky enough to meet and play each other.

However, I am not, nor have ever been, brand obsessed or ever followed the fashion of the “modern game”. I do respect the game over brand. In fact I have not even played a round in over 10 years so these modern frying pans are extremely alien to my idea of golf. As well as not being allowed to wear metal spikes which was becoming the norm at most courses just before I stopped playing! In full disclosure, I will admit I did upgrade from persimmons to a 2nd hand Titlist titanium 975D driver and matching 3 wood for a few years shortly before I stopped playing (I wish I still had more of my old persimmons). I have never been embarrassed to play an old set. I have never been out to impress anyone with whats in my bag. In fact the only clubs I have ever purchased “new” were a couple of Titlist Vokey wedges about 15 years ago. Other than these wedges, all my clubs/sets have been old. I have always played blades since picking up the game coming on 50 years ago now. I graduated from plastic-headed clubs and balls (at about 3 years of age) progressed through cut-down metal shafted blades (as a kid) and then on to full-sized blades. I have never owned new cavity back clubs. I apologize if my post misled you to believe that I think looks are more important than form and function as that is in no way the case. In fact a “beat up shit set” of 50’s blades looks much more attractive to me than any of the modern fashionable cavities.

I am fortunate enough to have several sets to choose from and one or more of the sets will soon be added to the Hogan PCs as ABS spec and it is likely either the old Double Eagles pictured in the previous post, or a set of Pirie of Glasgow “Eric Brown” irons because both of those sets should be heavy enough to match ABS specs without added lead. When I said “for now” I only meant that one of these sets which would not need added lead would therefore likely be my preferred set and replace the leaded PCs in my bag if form and function were equal. If for some reason neither of these are equal in those respects then I would have no problems playing the leaded PCs, or any of my old sets (leaded up if needed) with pride in them (even if not so proud of my golfing abilities until I complete the ABS training ).

As I said, “ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL” don’t you think that the slightly more compact headed unleaded Pirie 5 iron looks better than the (otherwise lovely) leaded Hogan PC 5 iron?

.

[twomasters]

Student of mine. he is a professional so things have come easier for him than most but some excellent changes here in about 6 weeks of work. His below swing looks eerily similar to Faldo in my opinion (and pointed out by nfbandon)…in another forum
He just shot a 67 a few days back and had a lot of excitement in his voice when relaying the story.

[flatlies]

Irons you play are great Thailand. Did not mean to and hope I did not offend. I am straighforward and direct about things. One of the reasons I am that way is beacause it is a waste of time and effort to sugarcoat, men should act like men and be direct. Two is the only teacher I have had that was not thinking about my feelings when he taught me, most teachers make you feel good about something you have improved but are not doing right. He would show me this is wrong, this is how to make it right. Work on this module, train that muscle. Even if I was hitting it well and ask, he would be honest and tell me something is wrong and it would show up if I did not fix. This is how it should be, if you are bad at math you should not get an A. Being nice to a student will not make them learn. Telling them they are wrong and how to fix it will make them learn. I know that I would be better than I am now if I had someone teaching what Two and Lag teach when I was a junior. They have it right, its just that they are Bill Gates before anyone knew who he is. He was an idiot for thinking everyone would have the device we are communicating with now. Everyone says it won’t work until it works. They are ahead of their time, although to outsiders it appears they are behind the times. Opposing forces.

I like the leaded Hogan better. All things being equal would you prefer a piecing, flat, direct ball flight that literally screams to the target with a level of speed that it would not deviate from the intended line until on the ground next to the pin or a weak, ballooning, curving ball flight that falls from the sky in the direction it was last travelling because it was not compressed enough to resist gravity the first two thirds of flight. The main reason I prefer the Hogan is because that is how the best ever set their clubs up. That is the main point I was making, you do what the best did because they are the best. They did much of the work for us and told us that is how to do it, yet the game is doing the opposite.

Someone teaches many people how to make a million dollars in a different and easier way. This way is not easier because it is better, but because it is a different market. In this market there are many millionaires because it is easier. They think they figured it out, but do not realize that their million is not a million. Their money is devalued because their are many dollars in this market. Inflation would overtake the market with increasing devaluation of dollars. The decreasing value of dollars is caused by printing more money because its easy to make a million and they have to keep up. A million is only valuable in relation to the total amount of money in the market. A dollar is valuable if there are only 100 dollars in the market, but not if there are a million. This market is the current distance trend, constantly making it easier and better. They figured it out. Creating more and more clubs and better ways to play and teach like printing money, thinking it is better but constantly devaluing the game. The more they add the less its worth. Players far in the future will look back on the market when it is history to avoid the same mistake.

[ABSinThailand]

Flat,

To address your first and last paragraphs:-

• Being direct with instruction can often be beneficial and speed progress. There is a risk though that the instructor may demoralize the student and slow progress, or, worst case they might even quit. The direct approach is obviously working with you (and I believe that TWO is clever enough to address signs he sees to make sure he boosts your morale if/when needed).

• I agree, as I think most of not all people on the ABS programme/site would, that equipment design has progressed in too much of a “player quick fix” direction (which is what I believe you were trying to portray) in order for the manufacturers to maximise their financial profit rather than improve player ability/skills in the long term.

Now, to address the middle paragraph:-

I like the leaded Hogan better. All things being equal would you prefer a piecing, flat, direct ball flight that literally screams to the target with a level of speed that it would not deviate from the intended line until on the ground next to the pin or a weak, ballooning, curving ball flight that falls from the sky in the direction it was last travelling because it was not compressed enough to resist gravity the first two thirds of flight. The main reason I prefer the Hogan is because that is how the best ever set their clubs up. That is the main point I was making, you do what the best did because they are the best. They did much of the work for us and told us that is how to do it, yet the game is doing the opposite.

LOL. Now who is putting brand first. Many might argue that the Hogan PC is not a Hogan design as it was designed later than his really “hands on” period so it may not be how “the best” set his clubs up but a compromised design. Have you played the Eric Brown Pirie clubs? Do you know that they do not have a “piecing, flat, direct ball flight that literally screams to the target with a level of speed that it would not deviate from the intended line until on the ground next to the pin”? I don’t yet. Hopefully when I get good enough I will be able to make the comparison myself. As an aside, I do think that these Pirie clubs have some similarities to the early Hogans (esp. Hogan Precision/Personal) so that may influence you a little that the hopes I have for them are realised. They conform well to ABS/Lag specs (FLAT, HEAVY, and COMPACT) in addition to the facts that they were played by a top 1950’s era player and were made by a great clubmaker) so I do think there is a good chance they will perform well.

All mute anyway as you missed my point. I said ALL things being equal (that would include ball flight, etc) so that the only comparison intended was leaded vs’ unleaded looks. It was only a question related to aesthetics. It makes no difference with regards to ABS principles so I will drop it.

Advice always welcomed. Straight talking and direct is fine. No offense taken or intended. I hope you have taken my replies and comments in the same manner.

TWO,
Sorry we have hijacked your thread.

“…excellent changes here in about 6 weeks of work…”

I only wish it was that quick for all of us, however I know that I will meed to put in a lot of work and over a much longer time to ingrain ABS into my swing. Congrats on the good work by both you and your student.

Back to the bag for me.

[flatlies]

Comparing relations to club and ball flight as the things being equal, misunderstood how you meant it. Rambling some as it was late here and could not sleep. Do not misunderstand me, your clubs are great. The ball flight I described can be made with any blade, but can get better with the correct set up. Giving some info like it was given to me, sometimes I might add more than I should. I am glad that I was taught ABS and give any info that I thought was important here to do the same.

That swing from the student of Two is great. I know mine did not look like that quickly. Do not be discouraged Thailand, it took me many months of training to feel and understand how the modules come together in the swing. Then it has been years of practice to become natural. Two has seen me hit more bad shots than all the players he has seen I would think. I am trying to get my swing on here, in the next couple of days I will look forward to all the comments about it. Been working hard on it off the course, now to get on the course for video.

Send me a message when you get to Module 3 Thailand. I have a few Macgregor sets from the 50s to ABS. When you message I will tell you which are done and you can pick, have some good ones I got for cheap in auctions. You pay shipping and I will give you the clubs.

[ABSinThailand]

No problem Flat. I have been known to ramble on a bit too sometimes. As long as the intention is to be helpful I have no issue with any comments.
Thanks for the offer of clubs Flat. One issue I have here is import duty. Any clubs imported, especially anything via DHL, FEDEX, etc. is not only over-priced due to the shipping length of them, but also due import tax and Golf clubs are taxed highly. Makes ebay etc expensive. People like working in USD so I hope I get the GBP & THB to USD conversion correct but as an example even if I won a 99 cent set of clubs on ebay it could cost another 90 US bucks to ship them from the UK to Thailand, and another 60 bucks in import duty so the 99 cent set is a lot less attractive at 120.99 USD in total cost (before ABSing). Similarly even if you donated a set free, it would cost. Lost track of who is where but if you are a TWO student then I assume you are in AUS? Must be almost as hard to get good 50’s sets there I assume? Not quite as near impossible as here, but not easy.

What I can do if a really good bargain appears is send them to my mom’s UK house to stick up in the attic until I get across there (could be a long while though as I have only been back twice in about 8 years ) to bring them back as personal baggage which is unlikely to be charged import duty as I will obviously be taking them back to the UK at some stage whether that is 5 years or 50 years later.

I will keep your generous offer in mind though when I do get to mod3 just in case. Many thanks. Feel free to ramble on before that though if you like, I just thought we had intruded enough in Two’s thread for now with asides.

[twomasters]

Good news today. One of my students qualified for The Open at Muirfield. Shot 70-63 to grab one of the 3 qualifying spots.
He came to me two months ago to fix his game with the intent of qualifying for The British Open and to get prepared for the summer events in Australia. Mission accomplished. Good Luck at Muirfield Wadey.

[ABSinThailand]

Congrats on the achievement so far Wade & Two. Scotland has some great and some fun courses.

I want to pop on a flight back home to play in the Highland Open at Pitlochry when I graduate from ABS. Pitlochry is typical of the courses I learned to play on. Built on the sides of hills and seldom a flat lie to be found. Very different from the parkland or links courses.

I saw that Muirfield has been tightened up a little for the open and hopefully the rough will be exactly that…ROUGH…so that should help you as a straight playing ABSer.

Will be eyeing yer progress. Stay oot o’ the hazzards an’ awa frae ony trouble. Guid luck.

[flatlies]

Thailand, I am in South Carolina. Worked with Brad for two and a half years at a course here. He was great enough to teach me and let me use a set of his ABS spec clus when I did not have the money for any extra set of clubs. Then he built me a set to play with as mine. Above and beyond class, I always told myself if anyone struggled with getting a quality set of vintage ABS spec clubs I would give them some if I could to return the gesture that Brad did for me. Clubs come from some places on Ebay at cheap prices here. Not being over the top, just following example.

Brad, no surprise that one of your students is on the famed yellow scoreboard. Always thought about how much better current pros could get with ABS that had the skills to score before ABS. 51 total majors from that last 7 winners at Murifield. What do you think John, first time major winner as the Masters and U.S. Open this year.

1959 Gary Player
1966 Jack Nicklaus
1972 Lee Trevino
1980 Tom Watson
1987 Nick Faldo
1992 Nick Faldo
2002 Ernie Els

[lagpressure]

Exciting stuff!

Congrats and good work!

Should be a great week…

[BomGolf222]

Great stuff! Congrats all round, great to see it…
Should be a great week alright, hands down the best course I’ve ever played, and by a long stretch too. I just hope clown golf doesn’t ruin the show.
A bit of a Faldo run would go down a treat.

[Newman]

http://www.foxsports.com.au/golf/the-majors/john-wade-interrupts-his-holiday-to-take-a-shot-at-winning-the-british-open-championship/story-fn2mcuck-1226680163798#.UebYsxaUr-k