? on making modern woods feel like persimmons?

kamandi · February 25, 2010, 2:22am

So I have some old Hogan speed slots, and some Sonartech ss 2.5’s. I can hit the Sonartechs farther, but they’re way too light, I can’t feel the weight of the heads, and despite stiff graphite shafts, it feels like they flex all over the place. If I’m using the persimmons and I suddenly use the Sonartechs, I hit them well. The longer I stay with the Sonartechs, though, my swing degenerates, and I have to switch back to the persimmons to get it back.

What do you guys recommend to make the modern woods feel more like the persimmons, while still retaining some of the distance advantages?

I could put steel shafts, but the heads of these woods are still pretty light.

Would weights inside the shaft, or lead tape make it even more whippy?

Thanks.

lagpressure · February 25, 2010, 3:02am

It’s great that you have developed such a keen awareness of the situation.

I don’t think there are any clear answers…you can compromise, but you can’t have both.
Best to pick the clubs that are going to be appropriate for the occasion…

If you are playing a 7500 yard wide open golf course, bring the titaniums. If you playing a tight old
school course, you’d likely do better playing persimmons.

Hit whatever you like, but don’t use the modern gear as a crutch. Make sure you can still hit the ball well
with the old school stuff.

Remember, a proper golf swing can hit anything pretty well.

robbo · February 25, 2010, 3:16am

K,

I don’t know what head size the Sonartec’s are, but you might try moving back a decade or so and getting a Titleist 975D with an Ei-70 graphite shaft in it. It’s a much smaller head (around 320cc’s? maybe a little bigger) than today’s monstrosities and that shaft has some weight to it. I always thought the 975D had a very "dense"feel … mush closer to a persimmon feel than any current 460cc high COR driver. It’s likely you’ll hit it further than persimmon but still have some of the control characteristics and you still have to hit it close to the middle of the face so you can’t get too sloppy with it. There’s always a few floating around ebay … cheap.

Another option might be some of the “composite” heads that were made for a bit.

robbo

kamandi · February 25, 2010, 4:36am

@lagpressure, thanks. I was first hesitant to switch to blades and old school stuff, because media and everyone says amateurs should use game improvement clubs. Turns out, the old school stuff taught me to swing better and have better feel. I do seem to notice the difference the offsets and perimeter weighing of cavity backs do to change the arc or face orientation.

A few years ago, I tried out a new driver of a friend’s and it felt like the driver was tracing it’s own path, just like a lot of the new putters. What’s cool about the old stuff is that it has a generally neutral feel, no corrections, and that’s what I like now. Currently though, the persimmon woods doesn’t have the distance for most of the courses here, so I guess I’d have to practice the modern ones once in a while.

@robbo, thanks for the tip. I’ll check those out. Heavy is the way to go. I can’t purchase any now, as I’m trying to limit my e-bay stuff since I kinda splurged little-by-little without noticing it, hehehe.

lagpressure · February 27, 2010, 5:50am

modern woods feeling like persimmon

welshdentist » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:36 pm

robbo wrote:K,

I don't know what head size the Sonartec's are, but you might try moving back a decade or so and getting a Titleist 975D with an Ei-70 graphite shaft in it. It's a much smaller head (around 320cc's? maybe a little bigger) than today's monstrosities and that shaft has some weight to it. I always thought the 975D had a very "dense"feel ....... mush closer to a persimmon feel than any current 460cc high COR driver. It's likely you'll hit it further than persimmon but still have some of the control characteristics and you still have to hit it close to the middle of the face so you can't get too sloppy with it. There's always a few floating around ebay .......... cheap.

Another option might be some of the "composite" heads that were made for a bit.

robbo

Ok, now this place is getting spooky.

Just taken delivery of the exact club you have described with an X-Flex…Ebay of course for £26

ABS minds think alike…

And I have a 6.5 flghted rifle in a Sonartec 3 wood. They are my ‘modern’ woods The 3 wood is HEAVY

kamandi » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:22 am
So I have some old Hogan speed slots, and some Sonartech ss 2.5’s. I can hit the Sonartechs farther, but they’re way too light, I can’t feel the weight of the heads, and despite stiff graphite shafts, it feels like they flex all over the place. If I’m using the persimmons and I suddenly use the Sonartechs, I hit them well. The longer I stay with the Sonartechs, though, my swing degenerates, and I have to switch back to the persimmons to get it back.

What do you guys recommend to make the modern woods feel more like the persimmons, while still retaining some of the distance advantages?

I could put steel shafts, but the heads of these woods are still pretty light.

Would weights inside the shaft, or lead tape make it even more whippy?

Thanks.

kamandi

Postby lagpressure » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:02 am
It’s great that you have developed such a keen awareness of the situation.

I don’t think there are any clear answers…you can compromise, but you can’t have both.
Best to pick the clubs that are going to be appropriate for the occasion…

If you are playing a 7500 yard wide open golf course, bring the titaniums. If you playing a tight old
school course, you’d likely do better playing persimmons.

Hit whatever you like, but don’t use the modern gear as a crutch. Make sure you can still hit the ball well
with the old school stuff.

Remember, a proper golf swing can hit anything pretty well.

I don’t know what head size the Sonartec’s are, but you might try moving back a decade or so and getting a Titleist 975D with an Ei-70 graphite shaft in it. It’s a much smaller head (around 320cc’s? maybe a little bigger) than today’s monstrosities and that shaft has some weight to it. I always thought the 975D had a very "dense"feel … mush closer to a persimmon feel than any current 460cc high COR driver. It’s likely you’ll hit it further than persimmon but still have some of the control characteristics and you still have to hit it close to the middle of the face so you can’t get too sloppy with it. There’s always a few floating around ebay … cheap.

Another option might be some of the “composite” heads that were made for a bit.

robbo

Postby kamandi » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:36 am
@lagpressure, thanks. I was first hesitant to switch to blades and old school stuff, because media and everyone says amateurs should use game improvement clubs. Turns out, the old school stuff taught me to swing better and have better feel. I do seem to notice the difference the offsets and perimeter weighing of cavity backs do to change the arc or face orientation.

A few years ago, I tried out a new driver of a friend’s and it felt like the driver was tracing it’s own path, just like a lot of the new putters. What’s cool about the old stuff is that it has a generally neutral feel, no corrections, and that’s what I like now. Currently though, the persimmon woods doesn’t have the distance for most of the courses here, so I guess I’d have to practice the modern ones once in a while.

@robbo, thanks for the tip. I’ll check those out. Heavy is the way to go. I can’t purchase any now, as I’m trying to limit my e-bay stuff since I kinda splurged little-by-little without noticing it, hehehe.

@robbo, thanks! I found a ('98?) Taylormade Ti 2 Bubble Shaft 8* (47"?) Stiff driver in the basement that I hadn’t tried out since I was just starting golf. I couldn’t appreciate it before, but now, I’ve tried it yesterday, and the feel and swing weight was excellent. The older heads are definitely heavier, and maybe the shaft was too. It was much easier to feel the clubhead lagging.

I have a relatively heavy Accuflex VS339 shaft with high kickpoint sitting around, so maybe I’ll re-shaft this with that, and maybe later have the head painted to match the shaft. I think I’ll have the total length to about 45". I’ll probably lose some distance against the modern drivers, but the weight/feel/control is worth it.

I’m gonna find out the swingweight/weight of the hogan speedslots, then I’ll try to match the modern woods weight to it … probably reshaft to steel too.

I’m thinking this could bridge the gap between persimmon and the modern titanium.

Postby Richie3Jack » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:49 pm
I can’t remember correctly who was stating it, a scientist or some Trackman people, but using the equation of Force = Mass x Acceleration they firmly believed that the optimal titanium driver would be about 390 cc’s instead of 460 cc’s. 460 cc’s didn’t have enough weight for mass. If you tried to add weight, the club would get too heavy and you’d lose acceleration. On the flip side, if you went with a very small driver head, you would get the acceleration but lose the mass.

So you might want to try some titanium drivers closer to 390 cc’s. You could probably look some up and then buy them off of eBay for a cheap price.

Postby bobscottjnr » Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:03 pm
The Titlesit PTs are pretty tasty! They also sit in the 54* range as well, and the hosels can be toyed with. The heads are heavy and lead tape seems at home on them. The end of the world as Lag knew it started with the 975D!

bobscottjnr

Ritchie3:

I have Ti-driver heads @ 250cc that weigh 198grams and 460 driver heads that weigh 200 grams. I have generally thought that the use of various lightweight metals allowed the OEM’s to enlarge the cubic centimeter dimension while keeping the weight generally within a narrow range–about 200 grams…haven’t checked for awhile but did that process change?

Range Rat

Postby Richie3Jack » Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:06 pm
I have no idea, Rat.

I see that the new Nike Tour VR driver is available in 400 cc’s. I took a look at it yesterday and for new age titanium, it’s looks very nice.